Amazon: Automatic Transmission - Won't Go Into Reverse Right Away

[Iowa122S]

I'm new to this forum, having just bought my first Amazon (1967 2-door) a few months ago. It came with many problems which I have been able to resolve, but there is one that still plagues me.

After being parked for any amount of time longer than an hour or so, I cannot get the automatic transmission to engage in reverse so that I can back out of my garage or parking space.

If I put the car into D or L first, it will engage these gears with no problem. If I let it sit in D or L for 10 seconds or so and then try R, it will engage the reverse gear.

AT fluid is full. Not sure if this is common behavior or a sign of impending doom for my transmission. Any advice would be welcomed.

Thanks,

Jeff in Iowa, USA

[harvey]

Delayed engagement is normally caused by low fluid level, so I'd ask how you were checking it. And also you say that it engages forward drive, but not reverse, if you didn't need to reverse at the time, would forward drive actually work if you were able to drive off forwards? Or do you not know that because every time it happens it's not possible to drive forwards because of the wall in front of you.
Another possibility is the linkage is slightly out of adjustment, so that when moving the lever P to R it doesn't engage, but moving it the other way L D N R takes all the slack up so that it does.
Is there any delay in engaging TOP gear when driving? Does it shift up early or late? Do you know what type of fluid is in it?
There is an adjustment for the rear band which is in use in reverse, and also the servo that controls the band can come loose, but you'd probably be experiencing other problems if those were the cause.

Sorry, more questions than answers there, but if everything is occuring as you say it is, without any other symptoms, it would be very unusual.

[Iowa122S]

Thanks for your response, harvey.

Delayed engagement is normally caused by low fluid level, so I'd ask how you were checking it. - I'm using the transmission dipstick to measure it. It has always been near (but slightly below) the Max line when I check it (usually when it is hot)

And also you say that it engages forward drive, but not reverse, if you didn't need to reverse at the time, would forward drive actually work if you were able to drive off forwards? Reverse drive normally takes about 10-15 seconds to engage when the car has been idle for at least two hours. L and D normally take anywhere from 3-5 seconds to engage.

Is there any delay in engaging TOP gear when driving? Does it shift up early or late? I've noticed now that it seems to be in second gear all the time when I am in D. I can tell a difference in acceleration when the gear selector is on L and the engine speed is high at around 20 mph. When in D, however, I never feel any gear changes, all the way from 0 mph to 65 mph and higher. Engine noise is very loud on the freeways, so I believe I am always in second gear when in D.


Do you know what type of fluid is in it? I have only added a little fluid since I bought the car a few months ago. I added Type A ATF. Not sure what the previous owner used.

There is an adjustment for the rear band which is in use in reverse, and also the servo that controls the band can come loose, but you'd probably be experiencing other problems if those were the cause. I did perform the rear band adjustment from inside the car this past weekend. It had no effect on the reverse gear engagement time.

Most of my driving has been around town at speeds between 0 and 35 mph. But I would like to get reverse gear to engage more quickly and to find the top gear at some point so I can take those occasional drives on the freeway. Dropping the pan and messing around inside is beyond my comfort level, so unless you have some other ideas, I might just bring it to the local transmission shop. We have one here in Des Moines with a mechanic who has experience with older model automatics.

[Derek UK]

"Delayed engagement is normally caused by low fluid level, so I'd ask how you were checking it. - I'm using the transmission dipstick to measure it. It has always been near (but slightly below) the Max line when I check it (usually when it is hot)"

Are you checking the level with the engine idling, and in P? Top marks on the dipstick are for max level warm/cold with the top one being for warm.

Gear selection on an Amazon often difficult due to worn or missing nylon bushes but you seem to get the gears in the end.

http://volvoamazonpictures.se/docume...BW35MANUAL.pdf

[heckflosse]

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

I'm new to this forum, having just bought my first Amazon (1967 2-door) a few months ago. It came with many problems which I have been able to resolve, but there is one that still plagues me.

After being parked for any amount of time longer than an hour or so, I cannot get the automatic transmission to engage in reverse so that I can back out of my garage or parking space.

If I put the car into D or L first, it will engage these gears with no problem. If I let it sit in D or L for 10 seconds or so and then try R, it will engage the reverse gear.

AT fluid is full. Not sure if this is common behavior or a sign of impending doom for my transmission. Any advice would be welcomed.

Thanks,

Jeff in Iowa, USA

I have had this problem on an early 140, it would creep in reverse if the throttle was blipped, but it had no "bite".
I tried adjusting the rear band, to no avail.
Same problem, and symptoms, with an Austin Westminster, also using a BW35 box.
Both eventually lost reverse completely.
Both were ok for fluid. linkage adjustment, and kickdown cable.
They are not the best auto gearbox, maybe the later AW71 could be adapted?
Sorry, sounds like time for a rebuild, or convert to a "proper" gearbox.
Good luck,
James

[harvey]

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

Thanks for your response, harvey.

Delayed engagement is normally caused by low fluid level, so I'd ask how you were checking it. - I'm using the transmission dipstick to measure it. It has always been near (but slightly below) the Max line when I check it (usually when it is hot)

The following covers the level checking procedure, and the fluid type.

Firstly check that the selector linkage is correctly adjusted and is working as it should.

Then check the fluid level as follows:

With the transmission at normal working temperature, the engine idling, and the car on level ground, run through the entire selector range allowing a few seconds in each position to allow it to engage, starting and finishing in PARK, then, with the engine still running walk round remove and wipe clean the dipstick and re-insert to take a level. You will have time for a few quick dips to try and get an accurate level. If you add fluid repeat the whole procedure before taking another level. Use only ATF-G or fluid that meets Ford spec. M2C-33G. DON'T use any of the DEXRON type fluids. A small amount of white blackboard chalk rubbed on the bottom of the dipstick, and then wiped off, dries it and makes seeing the level easier.

The fluid should be red and clean, not brown and burnt.

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

And also you say that it engages forward drive, but not reverse, if you didn't need to reverse at the time, would forward drive actually work if you were able to drive off forwards? Reverse drive normally takes about 10-15 seconds to engage when the car has been idle for at least two hours. L and D normally take anywhere from 3-5 seconds to engage.

If you try to engage REVERSE immediately after forward drive engages is there still no drive? If the box remains in SECOND gear when coming to rest, rather than downshifting 2-1 then until the shift valve moves into the FIRST gear position, it won't drive in REVERSE.

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

Is there any delay in engaging TOP gear when driving? Does it shift up early or late? I've noticed now that it seems to be in second gear all the time when I am in D. I can tell a difference in acceleration when the gear selector is on L and the engine speed is high at around 20 mph. When in D, however, I never feel any gear changes, all the way from 0 mph to 65 mph and higher. Engine noise is very loud on the freeways, so I believe I am always in second gear when in D.

Sounds like it's not engaging TOP gear then. If that is the case then as it's OK in FIRST and SECOND, then it will be a problem with the rear clutch, but the rear clutch is also used in REVERSE, and as that does work eventually, then it could be that it's the clutch not engaging when it should, and the reason why eventually it does engage REVERSE, but not TOP is that REVERSE uses a higher line pressure than TOP, and that little bit extra is enough for the clutch to work. If the 1-2 shift is early, then the line pressures are low, and so increasing them to delay the shift to the correct point, will increase the line pressure, hopefully enough to get TOP to engage, as well as speeding up the engagement of D & R at a standstill. You need to be looking at the loss of TOP, in conjunction with the delayed engagement.

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

Do you know what type of fluid is in it? I have only added a little fluid since I bought the car a few months ago. I added Type A ATF. Not sure what the previous owner used.

The fluid needs to meet Ford spec M2C-33F or G. Do not use any DEXRON type fluids.

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

There is an adjustment for the rear band which is in use in reverse, and also the servo that controls the band can come loose, but you'd probably be experiencing other problems if those were the cause. I did perform the rear band adjustment from inside the car this past weekend. It had no effect on the reverse gear engagement time.

That again points to the rear clutch then.

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

Most of my driving has been around town at speeds between 0 and 35 mph. But I would like to get reverse gear to engage more quickly and to find the top gear at some point so I can take those occasional drives on the freeway. Dropping the pan and messing around inside is beyond my comfort level, so unless you have some other ideas, I might just bring it to the local transmission shop. We have one here in Des Moines with a mechanic who has experience with older model automatics.

As I said earlier, you need to be looking at the whole picture. If the fluid level is correct, but the shift speeds are low (and particularly if the box wont "kickdown", then you need to increase the line pressure, and then see what you've got. Hopefully that increase will be enough to help the rear clutch engage when it should, rather than the delay in REVERSE, and the lack of TOP.

[classicswede]

I have not read much of teh above posts at all put thought i would add my experiance.

Reverse is normaly the first gear to go when there are fluid issues. This can be low level, dirty or blocked filter.

If the fluid level is correct then I would suggest a drain and filter clean and refill with new oil. That should get the box working right again or if not put you on a good working platform.

Make sure you order a new sump gasket and check teh condition of teh kick down cable while you are there as the sump need to come off to replace thecable.

[harvey]

When the filters get blocked they whine, and there's been no mention of that so far.

[Iowa122S]

I have made some progress on the problems with my Amazon's automatic transmission. First off, I attached a tachnometer to my Amazon and mounted it on my dash under my heater controls. I wanted to be able to witness engine speeds during my testing.

Then, after reading the section of the shop manual that addresses the adjustment of the downshift valve cable, I found that there was a LOT of slack on the throttle linkage end. I removed the slack as described in the manual on page 4-16, section A (although I don't know if I have the necessary tools to measure the line pressure as described in A.3.b.) It is pretty close to the point where I don't have the ability to take out much more slack using the adjustment screw.

I took it for a drive and now I definitely feel (and see via the tach) a shift occurring when I am somewhere between 2500 and 3000 rpms (at about 35 mph). I'm assuming this shift is from 2nd to 3rd.

On the Swedespeed Volvo forum here in the States, one of the contributors suggested that the Amazon is designed to start from second gear while the selector is in the D position. While this contradicts what the shop manual indicates, it seems to be true with my car. Reverse is still slow to engage, but at least now I am moving out of second gear while in D. I will look at my linkage next and also try a fluid change.

Thank you for the information regarding the type of fluid to use. It was suggested to me that I could use Valvoline® Dex/Merc ATF on the BW automatic because it is designed for gearboxes requiring Type A Suffix A fluids (see http://www.mid-wood.com/images/E0261...nDexronIII.pdf). But in this forum, it was suggested not to use Dexron fluids. Is this suggestion broadly made for all Dexron fluids, or is this one somehow different?

Would this fluid be a better choice: http://www.valvoline.com/products/br...ssion-fluid/34 ?

[harvey]

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

On the Swedespeed Volvo forum here in the States, one of the contributors suggested that the Amazon is designed to start from second gear while the selector is in the D position. While this contradicts what the shop manual indicates, it seems to be true with my car.

That's sort of correct, if you have a PRND21 indicator plate in the car, and a PRND2D1L gearbox. D2 is second gear start, and will change 2-3 and 3-2 but locking out first and that will be in the D position in the car if there's a mismatch. D1 is fully auto.

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

Thank you for the information regarding the type of fluid to use. It was suggested to me that I could use Valvoline® Dex/Merc ATF on the BW automatic because it is designed for gearboxes requiring Type A Suffix A fluids (see http://www.mid-wood.com/images/E0261...nDexronIII.pdf). But in this forum, it was suggested not to use Dexron fluids. Is this suggestion broadly made for all Dexron fluids, or is this one somehow different?

Don't use any of those.

Originally Posted by Iowa122S

Would this fluid be a better choice: http://www.valvoline.com/products/br...ssion-fluid/34 ?

That's the one you need.