General: Help!! have I bought a lemon?!?

[foggyjames]

It's a big problem with almost any modern car with an automatic transmission (one of the reasons I avoid them like the plague). Pick a brand...there'll be stories! As they've been asked to handle more torque over the years, they're rarely cooled adequately, and pressure on service schedules has seen routine fluid changes dropped.

I saw a fantastic quote the other week...something along the lines of "It is fair to say that 'sealed for life' transmissions do not need the fluid changing in the lifespan of the gearbox, but the missing detail is that the lifespan of the gearbox will have been artificially shortened because the fluid hasn't been changed...!"

cheers

James

[V70RMW]

Originally Posted by Aveton Gifford

I could be wrong, but judging by your symptoms it sounds like you still have the "stop neutral" function on your gearbox, this means that when stationary for a few seconds the auto box automatically goes into neutral, and then when you accelerate again it goes back into drive, and it can do so with a hell of a bump.

If you keep the car, have the software updated and the fluid changed.

I agree with AG on this. The problem is almost certainly down to the 'stop neutral' feature on the box. I can't believe a dealer serviced car has not has this sorted before you acquired it. Well, I can, but just highlights the general incompetence of the dealers.

Only question now is how much the 'feature' has damaged the gearbox already. I guess you didn't pay much for the car, but surely even a second hand box will be more than the cost of the car.

[Rossi-fan]

A dealer has an obligation to sell cars that are fit for purpose, and should last a reasonable amount of time (generally 6 months I think) before you have any problems. He/they are bound under the sale of goods act to repair, replace or refund you. I believe he gets 3 chances to fix it. You maybe should have took it for a longer test drive, got it nice and hot.

[TXC]

Right, either you need to show up at the doors of this dealer an hour into their working day and present them with your story and the car. Listen to what they have to say, if they brush it aside as ' you were tld, trade terms' etc, then politely remind them that you feel they are still under obligation to sell a road worthy car given you have paid full market price for the vehicle, and you are not a trader.

Above all, stay civil, try to keep a mental note (which you can then write down) of exactly what is said and what they will do about it. Take someone along with you, NOT as intimidation, but purely as a witness to the conversation content.

Or, if you can't find it to get there, at least call them, again staying civil.

Stop using the car, more mileage (and days for that matter) that passes, your case becomes weaker. Be prepared to have this go on some if they decide to wriggle.


OR,

You have already explicitly agreed and have had re-enforced the NO WARRANTY statement, that you will feel too silly going back, get over it, go back!


OR

this isn't the full story, you have already contacted them and they've fannied you off at least once.

You paid full mark up on this, so it wants to be a complete car (perhaps age related wear to contact surfaces etc or a sticky electric window, but a fault that renders the car un-driveable is poor form.

They might just say, 'bring it back, and lets see what what we can work out', do nothing get nothing.

Before you do this, check the oil level, top it up with the correct oil if needed (look in book for procedure), call out your AA/ RAC, they will not be able to fix it, just ask them to provide you with something on paper - suspect gearbox failure, garage to diagnose.

[zakc]

I am the only one here to possibly think it could be a worn top engine mount? My v70 auto had a buggerd old style mount causing all sorts of banging and knocking noise's, replaced it with a modified one and it was sweet as a nut!

I changed the box fluid too and that's made things even better. I mean come on at 1500 quid don't expect a brand new car that won't need any money spending on it.
Get the mount checked you don't need any tools just inspect it

If it looks like this...



Replace it for one that looks like this

[krisby]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

It's a big problem with almost any modern car with an automatic transmission (one of the reasons I avoid them like the plague). Pick a brand...there'll be stories! As they've been asked to handle more torque over the years, they're rarely cooled adequately, and pressure on service schedules has seen routine fluid changes dropped.

I saw a fantastic quote the other week...something along the lines of "It is fair to say that 'sealed for life' transmissions do not need the fluid changing in the lifespan of the gearbox, but the missing detail is that the lifespan of the gearbox will have been artificially shortened because the fluid hasn't been changed...!"

cheers

James

True, BMW say the same yet there are stories of failed autos. My 528 was hitting 140,000 and on hard kick down there was a thump, was hard to tell if it was the gear box, drive shaft or rear diff, but given the miles as a precaution I had the gearbox flushed, not sure about volvos, but for my Beemer not many garages around tackle it, my usual guy wasn't equipped and used another chap instead, 2 hours work and it cost me £430, , but it was worth it, the thump disappeared and I was able to rag it again without fear of breaking it.

[RM955I]

Define "normal working life"? It's meaningless.

[krisby]

Exactly, it is more "longlife" than lifetime, on the Beemerforums it was generally suggested to flush around 100,000miles to make it "longerlife".

[PaulieOfArrod]

Hi All,
Thanks again for your comments. Just to clarify:
I called yesterday at about 10am. I was told that the relevant guy would be in later in the day and would definitely call me back that day. I didn't get a call, but I did sent a letter to them recorded delivery.

I don't have any problem going back. I don't think the "trade terms" thing will or should stick in a case like this. If they were selling it to thr trade, why would it be on their normal forecourt with all the stickers on it etc etc. No warranty is fair enought, but if there is a gearbox issue straight away and they've said " excellent condition" and "drives superb", then no way can they expect to sell to Joe Public (and they knew that's who I am cos they filled out the logbook for me as registered keeper, not a trader).

I took it out yesterday for another short run. After it was warmed up (a while after the engine temp showed as being normal - which happened very quick), the problem reccured. I now have a better fix on what the problem is. A simple summary:

When you back off the throttle and brake in an auto, the engine is disconnected from the drive / propshaft, and it goes back to idle again. When this has happened, and the car is just coasting along at say 10 or so miles an hour, when I then press the accellerator again, there is a delay in the transmission "reconnecting" again. Such a delay that, if I am not careful, the engine will race up to 4000 rpm or beyond before suddenly there is a connection made. It is a slightly intermittent fault, and you can try and minimise the jolt it by being EXTREMELY patient and gentle when you return to throttle, but that is what the problem seems to be.

I am tempted to go to the local gearbox specialist tomorrow if I haven't heard from the garage, pay the £60 and then bill the garage for it and / or use the report from them as a way of getting the garage to be reasonable.

this is the letter I sent..

Volvo S60, reg XXXX, purchased 12/11/2013

Sent: Special Delivery

Dear Sirs,
In a telephone call today I was told by Eric that I would be receiving a call “Frank”, and that it will be Frank who deals with this matter.

Yesterday, I purchased the above vehicle for £1499 in cash and drove it away at around 6.10 pm, just as you were closing for the day. Shortly after driving away I became aware of the following issue.

1. Gearbox / transmission fault. After slowing down for a junction or roundabout and when gently pressing the accelerator pedal there is a very severe “jolt” as the transmission seems to select a lower gear and / or re-engage. This is an intermittent issue but it happens quite regularly once the car is properly warmed up.

This fault did not become apparent during the short test drive earlier in the day. I expect this is because the car needs to be warmed up for the fault to occur.

I also noticed the following issues:
2.
a. The vehicle doesn’t have heated seats as stated in the autotrader advert.
b. The vehicle doesn’t have a CD autochanger as stated in the autotrader advert
c. The rear parking sensors (as referred to in the advert) do not function.

The three items above are fairly minor (even combined) compared to issue No. 1.

I am aware of course that you stated in the advertisement that this car was to be sold under “trade terms” with no warranty. However, I am a consumer and not a trader (in line with the DVLA paperwork you filled in for me) and as such I believe that I still have certain rights under the law. Of course, the advertisement lists the features under (2), but more importantly, it also states clearly “excellent condition” and “superb drive”, and I now don’t believe these claims are accurate (the transmission / gearbox fault).

I am writing today to request a refund, repair or replacement under the Sale Of Goods Act on the basis that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality.

I am sure you will understand my concern that a transmission / gear box problem such as this could involve very costly repairs.

Of course, I am based nearly 90 miles away from you, and this is likely to make it difficult for this to be resolved by you without causing me great inconvenience. My strong preference and first choice therefore is for a prompt refund, unless you are able / willing to authorise and pay for repair and / or initial exploratory work to be performed more locally to me.

I understand that in some cases a change of fluid and / or a software update can resolve transmission problems on these vehicles. I have also made a phonecall to a transmission specialist local to me and I am told that they can perform a check of any error logs, and also check the fluid and relevant pressures (in an effort to hopefully identify a cheap and easy fix) for £60 +Vat.

I am flexible in terms of how this gets resolved, however I suspect that a refund is the most sensible and practical way forward. Whatever resolution is proposed of course I need to ask that this does not involve extra cost to me and that any time that I’m required to spend addressing the matter is kept to a minimum.

I ask that you please respond in writing within 7 days outlining your proposed next step(s).


Yours sincerely,

[Brendan W]

Please resist the temptation to go to a third party for the moment. The seller must be allowed reasonable time to respond definitively in order to protect your position.