What's the problem with electric cars?

[The Thong]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

Those in power believe different. Emissions have gone up in London, despite the ULEZ zone expansion.

Khan regrets lack of data on expanded ULEZ air quality impacts before mayoral election. Sadiq Khan has said he regrets the fact that voters will not be able to see data on the specific air quality impacts of the expanded ULEZ until after the London mayoral election.

Wonder why that is???

What do they expect though….. London has a big population, they have two airports on their doorstep, massive amounts of traffic inbound everyday and they want more and more tourism. But…. They don’t want the pollution but they want the taxes etc etc. None of it makes sense, it just strikes me as a cake and eat it scenario.
EV’s have a future but as I’ve said before, the tech and other associated stuff needs to catch up with expectation. We’re still a way off that yet too imho.
People are now starting to see that the blue sky that the government are painting has a few ugly black clouds in it that needs to be dealt with before it becomes good for average Jack.

TT

[Moose Test]

Originally Posted by baggy798

London had a population of 50,000 horses in 1900, producing around a million pounds of manure a day. The Times newspaper predicted "In 50 years, every street in London will be buried under nine feet of manure."

What Henry Ford said* seems germane to this thread; "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

If "people" had had their way, it would have been six feet deep, with the rest spread liberally up the walls of all roadside buildings..


*or maybe not, opinion on the attribution to him is divided.

[Tannaton]

Originally Posted by Moose Test

What Henry Ford said* seems germane to this thread; "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses."

If "people" had had their way, it would have been six feet deep, with the rest spread liberally up the walls of all roadside buildings..


*or maybe not, opinion on the attribution to him is divided.

.......

[Existential Crisis]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

Those in power believe different. Emissions have gone up in London, despite the ULEZ zone expansion.

Khan regrets lack of data on expanded ULEZ air quality impacts before mayoral election. Sadiq Khan has said he regrets the fact that voters will not be able to see data on the specific air quality impacts of the expanded ULEZ until after the London mayoral election.

Wonder why that is???

What, emissions have gone up in a hugely densely populated city that's population grows daily and that has more vehicles using its roads every day? Surely not. Did you think the ULEZ zones would stop this, or would they alleviate it by slowing down the increase? I'd have thought the second option was the one common sense might point someone towards? When you say levels have increased in London do you mean in London as a whole or within the ULEZ zones; either would make sense to me, but I'd lije to see if the increase is getting less year on year. It might prove to be one of Johnson's rare good ideas yet...

[The Thong]

I think we all remember this tragic death of a child. She should have been relocated to somewhere where she’d have been better. Then all these experts fall out the woodwork cracking on about cars and pollution etc. then the politicians start using the child as a figure head to fight pollution that they’ve help generate. I live UK politics

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...n-64624483.amp

And yet more and more building is going on in London which in itself is causing pollution and then all the on going pollution thereafter. There’s been cases where housing blocks have gone up that traps pollution down to poor airflow. This is a problem that’s only going to get worse as the population increases in London. I’m not an expert or do I have any figures but it’s common sense that sez that this can’t be good. Let’s not forget the aircraft that overflies some of the Burbs at low level. I’d be interested to see these pollution figures too.

TT

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Existential Crisis

What, emissions have gone up in a hugely densely populated city that's population grows daily and that has more vehicles using its roads every day? Surely not. Did you think the ULEZ zones would stop this, or would they alleviate it by slowing down the increase? I'd have thought the second option was the one common sense might point someone towards? When you say levels have increased in London do you mean in London as a whole or within the ULEZ zones; either would make sense to me, but I'd lije to see if the increase is getting less year on year. It might prove to be one of Johnson's rare good ideas yet...

I've said ULEZ is a scam all along... Its just a cash grab. Its obvious that such a populated city will have higher pollution than places that have less people and vehicles, but what is ULEZ doing exactly? If emissions aren't coming down, what's the point having it? What do you mean London as a whole or just within the ULEZ zone? The whole of London is a ULEZ zone (apart from the M25). ULEZ covers the whole area? Its the largest clean air zone in the world!

The underground has the worst pollution. Motorists in London have either got rid of their cars completely or bought new "compliant" ones to meet this agenda. Some who can afford it pay the daily charges to drive non-compliant vehicles. However, the financial burden on already struggling families is immense. Not everyone can afford a newer compliant car, but they need a car...

ULEZ is all about cleaner air (supposedly), but is it really cleaning the air? Bare in mind, there's people driving around in "compliant" vehicles, i.e euro 4 or newer petrol's and euro 6 diesel's... its what they (TFL) said were "clean". So why aren't the emissions coming down?

In fact, it speaks wonders when the Mayor won't release the data before the election (well, he says there's not enough, but that's just a way in getting out of it). Not enough data... is he having a laugh? ULEZ has been in force for several years. Granted, the expansion hasn't, but he won't release the data until after the election. I say won't because that's exactly what he's doing... he knows if the data is poor (which it likely will be), he won't get his seat. Once he has his seat, that's when he'll release it and deal with the backlash once he's on his throne.

This whole thing really needs rethinking because its not working. It won't happen though, as they've spent millions on it already with cameras and signage. Plus, the money generated from it would be too much to lose, as not everyone can afford compliant vehicles. Like I said earlier, its just a cash grab. Imagine how much money this brings in!? In fact, I did a little research...;

"For 2022, the money generated from ULEZ between the 9th of January 2022 to the 7th of January 2023 was £230m, of which £150m came from daily charges levied on drivers of non-compliant vehicles entering the zone and £80m from PCN income.
For 2023 (8th January to 19th August, which was the last reporting period up to the date of your request), the total money generated was £108m, of which £68m came from daily charges and £40m from PCN income. Net revenue is projected to continue to decline and to be zero by 2027, as more people change their vehicles to less polluting ones."

Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transpa...=FOI-1814-2324

Watch this video... it speaks for itself. According to Saqid Khan in October 2023, 95% of vehicles were "compliant". Doesn't seem to be working too well, does it? Emissions have got worse!

+ YouTube Video

[Existential Crisis]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

I've said ULEZ is a scam all along... Its just a cash grab. Its obvious that such a populated city will have higher pollution than places that have less people and vehicles, but what is ULEZ doing exactly? If emissions aren't coming down, what's the point having it? What do you mean London as a whole or just within the ULEZ zone? The whole of London is a ULEZ zone (apart from the M25). ULEZ covers the whole area? Its the largest clean air zone in the world!

The underground has the worst pollution. Motorists in London have either got rid of their cars completely or bought new "compliant" ones to meet this agenda. Some who can afford it pay the daily charges to drive non-compliant vehicles. However, the financial burden on already struggling families is immense. Not everyone can afford a newer compliant car, but they need a car...

ULEZ is all about cleaner air (supposedly), but is it really cleaning the air? Bare in mind, there's people driving around in "compliant" vehicles, i.e euro 4 or newer petrol's and euro 6 diesel's... its what they (TFL) said were "clean". So why aren't the emissions coming down?

In fact, it speaks wonders when the Mayor won't release the data before the election (well, he says there's not enough, but that's just a way in getting out of it). Not enough data... is he having a laugh? ULEZ has been in force for several years. Granted, the expansion hasn't, but he won't release the data until after the election. I say won't because that's exactly what he's doing... he knows if the data is poor (which it likely will be), he won't get his seat. Once he has his seat, that's when he'll release it and deal with the backlash once he's on his throne.

This whole thing really needs rethinking because its not working. It won't happen though, as they've spent millions on it already with cameras and signage. Plus, the money generated from it would be too much to lose, as not everyone can afford compliant vehicles. Like I said earlier, its just a cash grab. Imagine how much money this brings in!? In fact, I did a little research...;

"For 2022, the money generated from ULEZ between the 9th of January 2022 to the 7th of January 2023 was £230m, of which £150m came from daily charges levied on drivers of non-compliant vehicles entering the zone and £80m from PCN income.
For 2023 (8th January to 19th August, which was the last reporting period up to the date of your request), the total money generated was £108m, of which £68m came from daily charges and £40m from PCN income. Net revenue is projected to continue to decline and to be zero by 2027, as more people change their vehicles to less polluting ones."

Source: https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/transpa...=FOI-1814-2324

Watch this video... it speaks for itself. According to Saqid Khan in October 2023, 95% of vehicles were "compliant". Doesn't seem to be working too well, does it? Emissions have got worse!

My point was its unsurprising that pollution has risen as the city gets ever busier, but is it rising at a lower rate because of these zones? Common sense woukd suggest that it is rising at a much slower rate than when it was full of horrible, belching,
inneficient cars and trucks...or are you really claiming it woukd be better and cleaner without it? Of course figures will rise year on year, it's one of the busiest capitals in the world and getting busier. I can only imagine the stench, a few streets in our nearest city absolutely stink because of tall buildings, commercial properties, taxi ranks and bus stops. It is awful.

[Thekilt]

Originally Posted by The Thong

I think we all remember this tragic death of a child. She should have been relocated to somewhere where she’d have been better. Then all these experts fall out the woodwork cracking on about cars and pollution etc. then the politicians start using the child as a figure head to fight pollution that they’ve help generate. I live UK politics

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...n-64624483.amp

And yet more and more building is going on in London which in itself is causing pollution and then all the on going pollution thereafter. There’s been cases where housing blocks have gone up that traps pollution down to poor airflow. This is a problem that’s only going to get worse as the population increases in London. I’m not an expert or do I have any figures but it’s common sense that sez that this can’t be good. Let’s not forget the aircraft that overflies some of the Burbs at low level. I’d be interested to see these pollution figures too.

TT

This was one of the main reasons i went electric. My daughter suffered horrifically with breathing issues when she was younger, in and out of hospitals, and at one point being in intensive care for a week on a ventilator. When you walk with children along a footpath and see the amount of particulates from exhausts, and the worst being the soot from Diesel cars right in their faces, you might as well have them smoking at that age. Its disgraceful and a lot of people dont notice it when walking with our heads at 5-6 ft above the floor. With kids heads anywhere from 2ft to 4ft they are a lot more exposed. Yes i agree its shifting the problem of emmissions elsewhere (at power stations etc) however there is ongoing improvements to capute the carbon (carbon capture projects) which is easier to do at a single point. Imagine trying to capture all the exhaust fumes of vehicles?

To see what its like for kids, try walking on your hands and knees on the pavement, or sit on a skateboard. it wont be long until you see the effects of vehicle fumes on kids.

[Whippy]

Interesting that you see diesel cars emitting clouds of black smoke. When, since Euro five came into force they've all been fitted with EGR and DPF filters. My diesel doesn't emit ANY smoke.

So there's that.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Existential Crisis

My point was its unsurprising that pollution has risen as the city gets ever busier, but is it rising at a lower rate because of these zones? Common sense woukd suggest that it is rising at a much slower rate than when it was full of horrible, belching,
inneficient cars and trucks...or are you really claiming it woukd be better and cleaner without it? Of course figures will rise year on year, it's one of the busiest capitals in the world and getting busier. I can only imagine the stench, a few streets in our nearest city absolutely stink because of tall buildings, commercial properties, taxi ranks and bus stops. It is awful.

Its not rising at a lower rate. That video shows the figures when ULEZ was introduced in central London and then what the figures are now after the expansion... guess what? Its gone up. So ULEZ isn't actually doing anything. There's compliant cars (95% are "clean) according to Sadiq Khan, so why isn't it going down? Wasn't that the whole point of ULEZ, to lower the emissions?

95% of the cars going into London and the surrounding areas are compliant according to Sadiq Khan, yet emissions are rising. Maybe they need to look at the number of cars on the road, as opposed to charging people to drive cars that aren't compliant, but in the real scale of things don't make a bit of difference to emissions levels.

London underground is the problem, then let's not forget the airports. Not much point having a low emission zone across London and a jumbo jet taking off, which omits more emissions than goodness knows how many cars put together. No, I'm not saying stop the planes... I'm saying rethink the whole thing. Volume of cars is the issue and the underground is literally toxic (much worse than above ground). Maybe TFL could invest some of the £338 million they got from ULEZ into that instead.