Coolant spec?

[TruckbusUK]

Originally Posted by TruckbusUK

Thanks Clan, thought so ... must admit I was perturbed that I could only buy pre-mixed ... lots of money for someone else to put water in my coolant , I only needed a little to top-up so purchased it, but it didn't ring true.

apologies cheshired ... got cheshired5 and clan mixed up in my reply.

[Familyman 90]

Originally Posted by Clan

Have you evidence to prove that ? its not true, it lasts and lasts in both corrosion and protection down to -37C . I have been testing it since the 1970's If you have a head gasket leaking all the time perhaps it will deteriorate , no one knows ,

Yes, I know rather a lot about coolant thank you, including experience with potentiodynamic polarisation testing and high performance liquid chromatography.

30 year old coolant is liable to contain sodium diphosphate or sodium benzoate as an inhibitor, which won't be active to any appreciable degree now. The antifreeze properties are in the glycol content and don't degrade, provided they're not contaminated.

[TruckbusUK]

Surely (yes I know don't call you surely ,) if the corrosion inhibitor had degraded then after that time the original blue or green colour would have become a rather muddy shade indicating corrosion from somewhere within the engine cooling circuit?

I must admit I had a 245GLT that had belonged to my dad, and I'm sure when it left the family after approx 18yrs and nearly 300k miles the coolant was still a bright blue colour, and it had never been changed, (it had been dealer serviced for all those years,) nor had any significant top-ups.

[Familyman 90]

The colour is a dye. It serves as a colour code to indicate the type of coolant, and to a lesser extent gives the observer a very rough visual guide that it isn't too dilute. It is not indicative of any chemical reaction that has taken place.

The colour coding is a little outdated now and there is some overlap netween manufacturers, ao always read the label!

[Clan]

Originally Posted by Familyman 90

Yes, I know rather a lot about coolant thank you, including experience with potentiodynamic polarisation testing and high performance liquid chromatography.

30 year old coolant is liable to contain sodium diphosphate or sodium benzoate as an inhibitor, which won't be active to any appreciable degree now. The antifreeze properties are in the glycol content and don't degrade, provided they're not contaminated.

I suggest you test some volvo coolant , it would be interesting to see what you think ..

This 33 year old coolant is in a cast iron volvo 340 engine and is very clear there is no corrosion. This isn't limited to the one car either I have been using it in many of my cars since the 1970's also I have worked on 10's of 1000's of volvos and assessed their coolant .

Leaking head gaskets would cause corrosion eventually I would imagine .. hence the colour changing dyes they use .

[SkipjackUK]

This summer I had my full service done by Cheshired5. Got my old weird pink coloured coolant flushed out at the same time




complete power flush (a few times) and new Volvo concentrate coolant

[StanC]

I'm interested in the discussion about the service life of Volvo green concentrated coolant. My understanding has always been that, while the antifreeze properties never deteriorate, the corrosion inhibitors do have a half-life of only around 2-3 years, meaning that the coolant should be changed regularly.

This is supported by Volvo themselves - the current concentrated coolant package labelling (Part No 31439720) indicates a shelf life of only three years. Previous versions did not give a shelf life. If the product has a specification life of only three years simply sitting on the shelf, how much less is it under coolant system operating conditions? When this latest coolant was introduced about five years ago I asked a number of people, including Volvo, why the shelf life had suddenly been introduced, but no-one seemed to know.

Rightly or wrongly, I've always changed the coolant in my 960 every two years. I'm getting old now and would welcome not having to change it, if anyone can reassure me about it!!

Stan.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by StanC

I'm interested in the discussion about the service life of Volvo green concentrated coolant. My understanding has always been that, while the antifreeze properties never deteriorate, the corrosion inhibitors do have a half-life of only around 2-3 years, meaning that the coolant should be changed regularly.

This is supported by Volvo themselves - the current concentrated coolant package labelling (Part No 31439720) indicates a shelf life of only three years. Previous versions did not give a shelf life. If the product has a specification life of only three years simply sitting on the shelf, how much less is it under coolant system operating conditions? When this latest coolant was introduced about five years ago I asked a number of people, including Volvo, why the shelf life had suddenly been introduced, but no-one seemed to know.

Rightly or wrongly, I've always changed the coolant in my 960 every two years. I'm getting old now and would welcome not having to change it, if anyone can reassure me about it!!

Stan.

Hi Stan ,
Volvo coolant has no change interval, it is the very best you can buy yet has a reasonable price . An undiscovered market leader ...
No Idea for the reason of the shelf life ., that's not usage life though .
I have been using this coolant in volvos and my own cars since the 1970's so very familiar with it's properties . It is still the same stuff , it changed colour from green to blue in the late 1990's
I own a 1988 340 with its original coolant which is still bright and clear and clean .

It will always give a freezing point of -37C when tested ,how ever old it is . assuming the correct 50%-50% mix

The corrosion inhibitors last as well , the colour determines whether that has deteriorated , if you have a head gasket or cracked cylinder liner etc it will change colour ..

So as long as you have the right mix and it is bright .clean and clear , It is fine .

[StanC]

Originally Posted by Clan

Hi Stan ,
Volvo coolant has no change interval, it is the very best you can buy yet has a reasonable price . An undiscovered market leader ...
No Idea for the reason of the shelf life ., that's not usage life though .
I have been using this coolant in volvos and my own cars since the 1970's so very familiar with it's properties . It is still the same stuff , it changed colour from green to blue in the late 1990's
I own a 1988 340 with its original coolant which is still bright and clear and clean .

It will always give a freezing point of -37C when tested ,how ever old it is . assuming the correct 50%-50% mix

The corrosion inhibitors last as well , the colour determines whether that has deteriorated , if you have a head gasket or cracked cylinder liner etc it will change colour ..

So as long as you have the right mix and it is bright .clean and clear , It is fine .

Thanks Clan. I've just done a coolant change in the last couple of days and, as you have observed, the two-year-old coolant that I drained out of the white block 3Ltr engine looked very clean and clear. So, I probably didn't need to do it! Now I will seriously think about not changing it in two years time, but leave it for a few years.

Cheers,
Stan.

[scbamber]

Interesting comments about the colour of the coolant not changing. Here is my experience..

At the 6th-year service on my 2015 D4 (which I've had from new) I accepted the customer-facing service desk's offer/suggestion of a (chargeable) change of antifreeze. I knew it would be done with the Volvo vacuum tool that empties the system completely before refilling it with the new stuff. As it happened I had wondered a couple of days earlier if it was time to change it, and had looked at it inside the reservoir. I found a pale greenish colour, and saw some bits of fine debris floating around as well.

That night after the service I looked in the reservoir just in case it might need a minor top-up if the hour's drive since the service had shifted some air pockets in the system - it was obvious that the coolant had not been changed. I removed 100ml into glass and compared it with what remained in the container of Volvo concentrate left in the car at my request. They were very different. The new stuff was bluish not greenish.

Next morning at the dealer's, the receptionist sent out a young technician. He removed the reservoir cap, took one look inside and said "It's obviously not been changed". The receptionist then confirmed the work had not been put on on the Workshop sheet, but she was astonished to see it was itemized on my bill!

I asked to see the Service Director, who came out and said that the technician who did the work was on his day off, but that it had definitely been changed. I asked the young guy to say what he had just told me, likewise the receptionist, and showed him my invoice. Despite the evidence the Service boss began to bluster, but still insisted the work had been done. I stood my ground, and told him I wanted it changing whilst I waited. "If you insist" he said rather haughtily and rather unpleasantly.

The young technician took the car and did the change whilst I had my coffee. He brought the car back, said he had done it personally,

I sent a letter of complaint to the owner of the dealership. He gave an extremely good reply of apology, refunded the full charge, and got the Service Director to phone me. The Director's attitude this time was very different and excellent: he apologised profusely, and said he could only think it happened because of a mix-up in communication between Reception (who entered the itemisation on the bill) and the Workshop.

Bottom line: the colour of the new stuff was quite different from the old stuff. Either Volvo have changed it over the years (which is what the Service Director said on his phone call), or it has degraded somehow. It has never needed topping up from new, so there is no question of a cracked block, head or leaking head gasket etc.

2nd bottom line: not for the first time the Dealership, a family business, have acted well for me. I have full confidence in them