240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Do you mean the wire itself is frayed or just that it looks scruffy Alan? If it's the latter i would suggest a clean up and lube the inner cable/wire with some Carlube ATF-U (use the same fluid in the box when you fit it too) but if the wire is frayed then you will need to renew it.

The Haynes Book of Fantasy (HBoF) usually has sections explaining this and how to adjust it correctly. If the original kickdown cable on the RB is in better condition (doubtful at twice the age) you may be able to use that instead of a complete new one.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/361091582318

I think that's the right cable and the best price i could find - many were ~£130!

I've just has a look at it Dave - just a bit scruffy I think. It should clean up fine.

[Othen]

... continued...

I put the RB up on some ramps this morn so I could take some (pretty rough) measurements and compare them to the AW71L box:

a. Overall length (front of bell housing to front of extension: 19.5" (BW55)/ 22" (AW71).

b. Length of bell housing: 7" (BW55)/ 9" (AW71).

c. Length of gearbox: 14" (BW55)/ 14" (AW71).

d. Length of extension: 6" (BW55)/6" (AW71).

So - whilst the gearboxes appear to be the same length the AW71 arrangement will be around 2" longer due to the bell housing. I don't think there would be any possibility of swapping the bell housings because the torque converters will be quite different. That means the prop shaft (from the BW55) and the shifter linkage (BW55 also) will be about 2" too long, and the cooling pipes about 2" too short.

The extension pieces are quite dissimilar, there is no choice about this though, I need to fit the one from the BW55 to make the speedometer work:



These two holes (the left side one indicated with the screwdriver) appear to be redundant on the BW55 (blind holes that butt up against the rear of the gearbox):



... but it is fortunate they are there because they are required for the AW71L:



Otherwise the bolt pattern seems the same - I'll probably remove the cross member bracket in the next few days as I won't need that:



... it will be easier to see what is happening with that out of the way...



The two prop shafts are quite different - which is a pity. I laid the 940 one out in more or less the right position under the RB and can see it is already about 3" too long, without taking into account a 2" longer bell housing pushing everything back:



A useful hour's work to start making an estimate (time spent in reconnaissance is rarely wasted).

One question if I may (someone may know the answer). The torque converter came off in transit (I was going to empty out that 25 year old ATF anyway), I've put it back in and I think the two flanges have engaged with the pump properly, does anyone know whether this looks like it is far enough onto the shaft:



As one may see, the face of the torque converter is about 3/4" recessed behind the front face of the bell housing, so the sort of bolt in the middle is just about flush.

Fortunately I have lots of time to sort all these little problems out!

:-)

PS. Some good may come out of the 940 prop being very different - I've just found one for sale on eBay at £120:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152899186...53.m1438.l2649

... so perhaps I can recoup some of the costs by selling a few parts I won't need!

[Othen]

... it is a bit easier to see what is going with the 940's cross member bracket removed from the back of the AW71 gearbox:



... as you may see, the gearbox mount for the BW will fit just as it does now and the top two holes will still be redundant:



:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Looks like you need to lose ~5" from the propshaft Alan, bearing in mind the position of the propshaft centre bearing may also be different so you may have to shorten both pieces.

The torque converter looks to be in the right position, usually there are a couple of long "tongues" on the end that goes into the box that engage with the oil pump drive inside the box and that is usually the last 20-25mm of inwards travel. It might not be quite there yet though, allow for the thickness of the driveplate to bolt onto the TC and you'll see what i mean.

Rotating the TC while gently pushing it in towards the box may help it find its way in.


The spigot in the middle of the TC engages with the crankshaft where the spigot bearing would be on a manual - the gearbox input shaft needs to spin freely and be supported when the clutch is disengaged so there is a spigot bearing for manual cars that sits in the crankshaft recess for this purpose. The bearing obviously isn't needed on the auto as the TC turns in unison with the crank.

The extra 2" on the bellhousing is presumably for the lock-up clutch so no getting round that as it would defeat half the purpose of changing the box.

Given that the AW7x was fitted in the USA to the B21A from 1982 onwards and other countries a few years later, i suspect you may be able to find a propshaft from a later 240 that came from a car with the AW7x box so problem solved if so.

If you know the length of the propshaft then this might be a starting point :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154403633302

That's 1370-1420mm and is only intended as a starting point for your search. I'd guess it's the same length as the existing one on the RB (being a 3-speed auto esstate as the donor vehicle) so i'd guess you'd be looking for one about 1310-1370mm long, based on the fact the gearbox is 2.5" (~60mm) longer.

This might be an option, despite the title saying manual the text in the listing says auto - a message to the seller may ellicit the information you need and maybe the right prop as well! Cheaper than having the existing one shortened and balanced!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154418210889

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Looks like you need to lose ~5" from the propshaft Alan, bearing in mind the position of the propshaft centre bearing may also be different so you may have to shorten both pieces.

The torque converter looks to be in the right position, usually there are a couple of long "tongues" on the end that goes into the box that engage with the oil pump drive inside the box and that is usually the last 20-25mm of inwards travel. It might not be quite there yet though, allow for the thickness of the driveplate to bolt onto the TC and you'll see what i mean.

Rotating the TC while gently pushing it in towards the box may help it find its way in.


The spigot in the middle of the TC engages with the crankshaft where the spigot bearing would be on a manual - the gearbox input shaft needs to spin freely and be supported when the clutch is disengaged so there is a spigot bearing for manual cars that sits in the crankshaft recess for this purpose. The bearing obviously isn't needed on the auto as the TC turns in unison with the crank.

The extra 2" on the bellhousing is presumably for the lock-up clutch so no getting round that as it would defeat half the purpose of changing the box.

Given that the AW7x was fitted in the USA to the B21A from 1982 onwards and other countries a few years later, i suspect you may be able to find a propshaft from a later 240 that came from a car with the AW7x box so problem solved if so.

If you know the length of the propshaft then this might be a starting point :

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154403633302

That's 1370-1420mm and is only intended as a starting point for your search. I'd guess it's the same length as the existing one on the RB (being a 3-speed auto esstate as the donor vehicle) so i'd guess you'd be looking for one about 1310-1370mm long, based on the fact the gearbox is 2.5" (~60mm) longer.

This might be an option, despite the title saying manual the text in the listing says auto - a message to the seller may ellicit the information you need and maybe the right prop as well! Cheaper than having the existing one shortened and balanced!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154418210889

I think I have the torque convertor on right :-)

The prop should only be about 2" shorter - I'll use the one from the RB rather than the longer one from the 940.

I'm envisaging the RB's prop being cut, sleeved and welded rather than sourcing another.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I think I have the torque convertor on right :-)

The prop should only be about 2" shorter - I'll use the one from the RB rather than the longer one from the 940.

I'm envisaging the RB's prop being cut, sleeved and welded rather than sourcing another.

Double-check the TC is on properly Alan, it will save you a lot of time and anguish to be certain now rather than when you're trying to mate the engine and box together and everything looks right but it won't go!

Not sure i understand the prop should only be 2" shorter. The 940 one is 3" too long on the AW55 so with the 2.5" extra on the AW7x, makes the 940 prop 5.5" too long.

Using the RB prop it would need to lose about 2.5" but if you can find a prop from a later 240 that had an AW7x from the factory then it saves the cost of having it cut, welded, balanced etc which would be more than the cost of a secondhand prop.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Double-check the TC is on properly Alan, it will save you a lot of time and anguish to be certain now rather than when you're trying to mate the engine and box together and everything looks right but it won't go!

Not sure i understand the prop should only be 2" shorter. The 940 one is 3" too long on the AW55 so with the 2.5" extra on the AW7x, makes the 940 prop 5.5" too long.

Using the RB prop it would need to lose about 2.5" but if you can find a prop from a later 240 that had an AW7x from the factory then it saves the cost of having it cut, welded, balanced etc which would be more than the cost of a secondhand prop.

I suspect I'll remove and replace the torque converter quite a few times until I'm absolutely sure I have it right Dave - good point though.

If I was going to use the 940 prop it would have to lose 5" or so, but I'm not (the centre cross member is completely different, maybe the flanges as well). The RB's prop would have to be 2" (about) shorter - but in slow time I might see if I can find a shorter one - I'll measure the RB's prop next time I'm under the car.

Today was just a first reconnaissance - lots of things to sort out, but plenty of time to do them properly.

Many thanks for your help, it is so useful to bounce ideas.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I suspect I'll remove and replace the torque converter quite a few times until I'm absolutely sure I have it right Dave - good point though.

If I was going to use the 940 prop it would have to lose 5" or so, but I'm not (the centre cross member is completely different, maybe the flanges as well). The RB's prop would have to be 2" (about) shorter - but in slow time I might see if I can find a shorter one - I'll measure the RB's prop next time I'm under the car.

Today was just a first reconnaissance - lots of things to sort out, but plenty of time to do them properly.

Many thanks for your help, it is so useful to bounce ideas.

Alan

I first discovered the TC could slide back further in with a BW65 sat on my chest while trying to rehang it on the back of the V8 in my last SD1 Alan, hence my suggestion of making sure you know exactly where it needs to be and how to check it is in fact at that point. It had looked right before i tried fitting it but i could only just get the two longest bolts in on the bellhousing.

A very good first recce today, you've got most of the problems ironed out already including the rear mounts.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I first discovered the TC could slide back further in with a BW65 sat on my chest while trying to rehang it on the back of the V8 in my last SD1 Alan, hence my suggestion of making sure you know exactly where it needs to be and how to check it is in fact at that point. It had looked right before i tried fitting it but i could only just get the two longest bolts in on the bellhousing.

A very good first recce today, you've got most of the problems ironed out already including the rear mounts.

Yes indeed Dave,

I suspect I’ll practice getting the torque converter off and on quite a few times while it is on the bench before it goes anywhere near the RB :-)

Alan

[Othen]

Now this is interesting, an AW71L gearbox for sale on eBay for £390:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133036820...53.m1438.l2649

... and that doesn't even have the torque convertor - to its credit though it does include delivery (which I suppose might be £50 for a half-pallet).