smart motorways?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Not to bash the idiot driver from it,

The idiot driver? As in only one? I spotted three in the first 30 seconds!

[green van man]

It is the duty of traffic joining a motorway to match their speed to traffic on the inside lane and filter into that lane, once in that lane they may accelerate and move to the left to overtake traffic in that lane if it is safe to do so. There is no obligation for traffic already on the motoway to give way to traffic joining it.

There are times when I will open a gap to let traffic join if queueing on the motorway and times when I will lift off the throttle to allow a hgv to pass me easier., but that is dependant on circumstance.

I was driving in lane 1 towing the caravan passing a junction, 2 lanes and fast traffic in lane 2. Held my speed and course. Young lady on the slip road oblivious to the 7m caravan I was towing and the fast traffic to my right sat alongside me expecting me to make room for her. Sudden realisation that she was running out of road and hard brakeing to join the motorway behind me.

With junctions close together get in lane early and stay there. If everyone obeyed the rules of the road as expressed in the highway code, and every driver must know about them to pass their test then joining and leaving motorways would be a far safer business than it is .

Paul.

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by green van man

It is the duty of traffic joining a motorway to match their speed to traffic on the inside lane and filter into that lane, once in that lane they may accelerate and move to the left to overtake traffic in that lane if it is safe to do so. There is no obligation for traffic already on the motoway to give way to traffic joining it.

Ahhh.. But with this, we are straying into territory of "what should be".
And rarely IS.
Be it motorway, doctors care, government obligations or contents of a takeaway meal from your local caff.

With junctions close together get in lane early and stay there. If everyone obeyed the rules of the road as expressed in the highway code, and every driver must know about them to pass their test then joining and leaving motorways would be a far safer business than it is .

Paul.

But they don't.
That's the trouble.

As someone once told me: " if you can't have what you'd be happy with, be happy with what you have "

And taking that junction 7 as an example (and there's many like that, another one being space between junction of A21 and Westerham rd and J5 of M25, approaching from south/sevenoaks with intention to go M25 clockwise), I feel much, much safer in the "fast" lanes avoiding all that twisted and I'll performed mess altogether.

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The idiot driver? As in only one? I spotted three in the first 30 seconds!

And that's M25 as I know it..

After some time one takes these things as normal..

[Ian21401]

As I saw it, two cars pushed across from lane 1 into lane 2 in front of you to overtake the hgv. Impatient or what. The first, whilst wrong, I could just about accept as one expects this sort of thing and you didn’t have to take avoiding action, other than possibly slow a little, the second was downright dangerous, forcing you to move into lane 3 to avoid a collision then overtaking you and others. What if you hadn’t had an option of moving into lane 3? Where was that hgv that you passed before merging? Obviously behind you somewhere?
These drivers who will merge from a feeder lane at any cost are my really really pet hate. They expect traffic on the main carriageway to give way when often it is not possible.
My other pet hate is when I am merging, not yet indicating to the right as I cannot see whether it is safe to merge yet, I adjust my speed to permit the vehicle in lane 1 to pass me, intending to merge behind it, but it brakes almost to a stop and flashes lights to let me move out. If there is a vehicle behind it, whoa, if there is no vehicle behind it then why not simply pass me and allow me to merge after it.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Ian21401

As I saw it, two cars pushed across from lane 1 into lane 2 in front of you to overtake the hgv.

If you have a look at the very start of the video Ian, you'll see the HGV is in lane 2 and moves into what is now lane 1/continuation of the slip lane, forcing the two cars now behind to take evasive action.

Idiot #1 is the HVG driver for not checking his mirrors to see what's in that lane before moving left.

Next the Merc pulls out in front of the dash-cammer (not sure if it's the person who linked to it or someone else on YT) and instead of getting his toe down and moving out of the way, proceeds to "Brake-check" the dash-cammer - this makes him idiot #2 for doing that.

Idiot #3 is the driver of the silver car (Astra, Skoda?) who pulls from lane 1 into lane 2 suddenly and without checking mirrors or indicating.

That all happens within the first 30 seconds.

[ThomasG]

And let's not forget the dashcammer himself.

What I see there is undertaking a lorry.

BTW: clip isn't mine. Its just one I found on YT, and it does the job I needed it to do: to show what this particular piece of M25 looks like, how far is from the end of slipriads of J7 to sliproads of J8 and what kind of behaviour can be seen there.

Edit:

And that's why, on this and quite few other stretches, you'll find me in the right lanes.
To go around the mess.

Whilst in UK.

Abroad, on the other hand..

What quite a lot of people doesn't seem to realise, is that UK is blessed. Blessed with long, smooth sliprioads.

Take France. Or Germany.
One needs ceramic brakes to get off the motorway and pulling power of a jumbo to join one.

Over there, and keeping in mind that motorways are somewhat calmer than M25, I will stay in the right, slow, labe (remember its driving on the right there!), but even on a completely empty motorway, if I see junction sign, I move over. Just in case someone will pop out.
It paid back number of times.

[Bendolfc]

I came across this video on YouTube that shows perfectly the problem with "smart" motorways.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=G7lZ3S80zQI

Two separate stopped vehicles within 2 miles and not a single lit VMS. The. First one has been stopped long enough for a recovery truck to arrive.

And that's the just opened new section on the M6 with the latest standards and tech.

As i said in my first post in this threat, if you find yourself broken down on one, get out and get over the barrier because there is a good chance the lane isn't going to be closed for a significant period.

[Ian21401]

I’d missed that move Dave. There’s a lot happening there. I’ve had to look at it a few times and I’ve probably still got it wrong. The hgv which the dashcammer passes on it’s nearside is effectively in lane 1 at that time and the dashcammer is in the outer lane of two slip lanes. The other hgv was in a lane which had been lane 1 but then became lane 2 as the inner slip lane became lane 1. The outer slip lane where the dashcammer is merged into what was lane 1 but then became lane 2. As you point out, the overtaking moves by the two cars which had been in the inner slip lane were a direct result of that hgv’s move left.
It’s 25yrs since I last drove on the M25 and even longer since I last towed a caravan around it.
Re Smart Motorways and hard shoulders as running lanes, frightening. I’ve twice broken down on a motorway, once in Yorkshire when we had to stop on the hard shoulder, not pleasant, and once in Co. Durham where I was able to access a slip road before stopping.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

What quite a lot of people doesn't seem to realise, is that UK is blessed. Blessed with long, smooth sliprioads.

One needs ceramic brakes to get off the motorway and pulling power of a jumbo to join one.

Sounds very like the slip roads from/to the Elveden junction on the recently (ish) dualled A11 - shortest legal sliproads they were able to use! Joining it from the Elveden side, heading north is uphill, to get onto the slip road there is a 90 degree bend.

Coming back the other way, off the dual carriageway onto the shortest sliproad in the world, striaght into a 90 degree to the left bend.

Within the first few weeks of the A11 being reopened, there were single-vehicle accidents because of the stupid design, there still are although not quite so frequently, the locals have got used to it now.

If driving on the A11 and passing said junction, the wise driver will move out to lane 2 to give the poor unfortunates a chance to get onto the road and build speed. Also will move out to lane 2 before the junction to let those coming off there have more road to slow down safely.
If i guesstimated the sliproad length at 50 yards, i wouldn't be too far wrong, it's about half the distance from the last countdown marker to the actual turn at 90 degrees.