Direnza springs

[Ron Kwas]

Juular;

I'm of exactly the same position you stated...I don't want a bone-jarring go-cart (no suspension) ride quality either...but I wanted to minimize the body-roll to something less than feeling like I was going to grind away the door handles any moment...

I have found fitting front and rear Anti-Sway Bars (1 1/8" F, 3/4" R from IPD), plus gas shocks, plus 70 Series tires, but leaving the stock springs (I wasn't ready to make that commitment!) gave me just that ride quality improvement and change I was looking for, and am happy with...only somewhat changed, but better straight-line ride, but vastly improved in cornering/instant lane-change/moose-test handling performance...I love it on my own cars, would highly recommend it, and have it on both 122 and 1800 (and past 140) cars...so contrary to many who make the commitment and change springs as one of the first things they change (sometimes to ridiculous levels to that the car can't run over a painted line without bottoming out!), I would recommend going with such mods first, then, if you want further and even more radical improvement (at the cost of having to possibly needing to have your teeth fillings reset by your dentist after you drive a potholed road...after all you and your car must live in the real world...you don't sound like you're wanting to build an autocross car here), you still have the option to change springs in the future...such are my findings and opinion!

Cheers

[Juular]

Originally Posted by Ron Kwas

Juular;

I'm of exactly the same position you stated...I don't want a bone-jarring go-cart (no suspension) ride quality either...but I wanted to minimize the body-roll to something less than feeling like I was going to grind away the door handles any moment...

I have found fitting front and rear Anti-Sway Bars (1 1/8" F, 3/4" R from IPD), plus gas shocks, plus 70 Series tires, but leaving the stock springs (I wasn't ready to make that commitment!) gave me just that ride quality improvement and change I was looking for, and am happy with...only somewhat changed, but better straight-line ride, but vastly improved in cornering/instant lane-change/moose-test handling performance...I love it on my own cars, would highly recommend it, and have it on both 122 and 1800 (and past 140) cars...so contrary to many who make the commitment and change springs as one of the first things they change (sometimes to ridiculous levels to that the car can't run over a painted line without bottoming out!), I would recommend going with such mods first, then, if you want further and even more radical improvement (at the cost of having to possibly needing to have your teeth fillings reset by your dentist after you drive a potholed road...after all you and your car must live in the real world...you don't sound like you're wanting to build an autocross car here), you still have the option to change springs in the future...such are my findings and opinion!

Cheers

Tremendously helpful post!

This is exactly what I'm aiming for - to improve the moose test handling. I find frequently that I can't quite bring myself to 'flick' the steering in the way that I can with many of my other cars, because I know it will really upset the balance and I'll have to catch it before it becomes squirrely. It also takes quite a long time to respond, to the extent that it feels almost under-steery.

The problem then becomes where to source these bars in the UK? I currently' cant find them anywhere.

What I do have is a spare front ARB. I've heard success stories of doubling these up for the same effect?

[Derek UK]

Many find that just adding the IPD 1 1/8" front ARB is sufficient to do the job. Brookhouse can source but has no stock of a 1" bar. I think the original is 7/8"? There are small companies in the UK that make ARB's for racing and rallying. I'm surprised none of them have made a batch. They are not hard to make. Anyone had any luck going that route?

[Juular]

Having a custom bar made does sound like an idea. There must be a desire for these?

I know the fitting can differ between earlier and later models with tabbed saddle brackets, but that's a minor inconvenience in the scheme of things.

[Rustinmotion]

Originally Posted by Juular

Having a custom bar made does sound like an idea. There must be a desire for these?

I know the fitting can differ between earlier and later models with tabbed saddle brackets, but that's a minor inconvenience in the scheme of things.

I found biggest improvement was changing to 195/65 tyres on new wheels car was squirming on heavy braking and rear wheels would spin up setting off from a junction this went away with the shorter side wall and fatter contact path
Next big improvement was replacing all the bushings

[Juular]

Full car bush kit inbound already, although they aren't bad at the moment.

I don't have a problem with grip as it stands, in fact I'm quite happy with the way it deals with acceleration and braking, apart from the way it seems easily upset by bumps while doing so. Again a product of body roll.

[142 Guy]

Ron K does make the excellent point about anti roll bar size versus spring rates. Increasing either will reduce vehicle roll in corners so if your objective is just reduced roll they are both options and his advice about not doing both at the same time is wise. If your hang-up is just vehicle body roll then the larger ARB might be the better solution as it will not have quite the same negative impact on suspension compliance over things like speed bumps / rumble strips that high spring rates will have. Also, if you leave your vehicle at the original ride height it does not mess with the camber and caster values on the car and you don't have to address the rear axle offset and propeller shaft / U joint alignment problems that may result from a significant drop in vehicle height.

As an observation, vehicle roll is not necessarily a bad thing. Reducing roll may make you feel more comfortable; but, reducing roll can reduce camber and weight transfer which may actually reduce tire grip. When you put a larger front ARB on a car, it will reduce vehicle roll; but, you will in general find that it changes the balance, increasing under steer. In the previous century; big marshmallow North American sedans were noted for really soft springs and really fat front ARBs and a healthy dose of understeer. In the seventies IPD marketed bigger ARBs for vintage Volvos selling both front and rear ARBs. The front ARBs definitely reduced body roll. They also increased under steer because of reduced grip in the front. Some years later IPD started marketing the ARBs just as a front and rear ARB package. The rear ARB reduced grip at the back which added a little over steer which helped balance out the understeer associated with the large front ARB returning the car to more neutral steer; but, not necessarily increasing overall grip. Increased ARB stiffness reduces both camber change and rear axle articulation which generally reduces tire effectiveness.

[Juular]

If I could pick a car I'd like to emulate within reason, it would be my 240 GLT. I believe these have a thicker ARB than lower trim levels, plus a rear ARB. I've fitted a set of single rate -20 springs to the front only because I felt it was riding exceptionally high, but the ride remains lovely and compliant.

It's no sports car, but it has a way of snapping to the steering input and not being fazed by road surface that just feels right. There is plenty of body roll, but it doesn't feel like the grip or direction is ever affected by it.

The Amazon does ride well and can be made to corner well, but it's changes in direction or road surface that I find unsettling. There's a particular bit of motorway slip here that has a long sweeping left hander, with a bit of rutting and the occasional camber change. I'd normally hit this at a steady 60, but in the Amazon I've found myself down at 30 as I feel at any second I'm going to either lift a wheel or the road imperfections are going to tip the balance.

Same with any S bend, the first corner can be attacked nicely but the balance is hard to place for the return bend as the roll seems to take so long to return.

I think I have the alignment dialled in nicely with a little wedge of toe-in. On normal straight road / motorway it is lovely and planted on any surface and doesn't tramline or wander. In fact I've just completed 800 miles on the motorway in it, and it's once of the nicest driving cruisers in the fleet.

[Bigbunt]

For what it’s worth, my first Amazon had lived a hard life by the time I got it. It needed just about everything including bushings and springs so I did all urethane from VP (in the States) and also their 30mm linear lowering springs. It was a vast improvement over the poor worn out suspension but it was a bit harsh. I also bottomed out the front cross members the first time I pulled into a station for gas (I mean petrol&#128521 and sort of regretted the lowering I had done. That car was also fitted with the (front only) IPD front sway bar.
Fast forward to my second Amazon which replaced the first one that was crushed and totaled by a very large walnut tree landing on it in a storm…
This car is a nice example in pretty good mechanical shape and only 72,000 original miles. One of the first things I was going to do was lower it because it looked so impossibly high in the wheel arches after the lowered car. I was unable to get the Amazoncars progressive (20 mm?) lowering springs before they stopped shipping to the states, but the more I drove the car, the more I realized that the original springs are quite nice! I was able to salvage lots of parts from the first car including new (VP) wheels mounted with 185 width tires and the IPD front sway (ARB) and I have to say the car is really nice like this. It takes the twisties well, doesn’t roll much at all and doesn’t bottom out unexpectedly.
Long story short, I agree with Ron! Try the IPD bar up front and modernize the tires and see how it feels?! I don’t really or autocross but I do drive “spiritedly” on the back roads and enjoy it a lot…

[Juular]

I'm inclined to agree. The original springs and shocks provide a lovely soft yet non-bouncy ride. I'm also not fussed about the ride height, I'm not looking for a slammed look.

Since I started this thread I've refreshed the engine mounts and replaced the top wishbone bushes with poly versions.

I also noticed that my new tyres are wearing rapidly on the outside so maybe a bit too much toe-in. It's likely I set it like this to compensate for the wander caused by tired wishbone bushes.

With the toe-in reduced and the above mods the steering already feels much more accurate and the turn-in greatly improved.

Still a lot of body roll so I'm in the process of trying to purchase an IPD ARB kit.