1999 Auto V70 Engine Runs Like a Pile of Rocks

[Pozzouk]

Originally Posted by mikealder

Best bet with the ETM is get your original unit rebuilt with the non contact digital angle sensor, this avoids any messing about with the main dealers or software updates.

As the car is Denso I assume it's a non turbo model - Mike

Mike, huge thanks for all your help.

However, having taken the car to the Main Dealers on Monday! - for an oil change and ETM software update and with the car literally jambed in third gear and the transmission light flashing like a baliesher beacon for an oil change that they proposed would seriously improve or eliminate the problem, they called me back Tuesday afternoon saying the box seemed much better and that the car was definitely worth the proposed extra £700 worth of work making a total of around £1100.

That was a big pill to swallow, but hey ho i needed my car back and reluctantly decided to let them get on with it as i was right out of time and no other known independent nearby.

Wednesday i'm called to apologize for the delay and was told that it will be done for Thursday................So, imagine my surprise when they phone me 1:30pm to inform me there is bad news sir..............the gearbox is shot!!!!!!

They tell me they are sorry but that it was only after they took it for a further test drive to test the cambelt and running of the car that it threw code 0023 and that the input sensor parameters of the gearbox were too far apart from the engine output sensors.......consequently the car attempts to run from third gear = safe mode! Strangely enough that is the exact state it was in when i delivered it to them.

Now they are pointing me to a local garage in Gosport (ten miles away) with a view to a re-con gearbox.............AND GUESS WHAT?!?!?...........the very same garage who told me weeks ago to put Dextron 2 in the box - as that is what they always use!!!!!!!

Any advice welcome

[mikealder]

Another reason for it staying in third gear could be due to the Winter mode switch being stuck in or wiring fault relating to Winter mode selection (the big button behind the gear selector marked "W" as that puts the car in to the third to avoid wheel spin on ice/ snow - Mike

[Pozzouk]

Originally Posted by mikealder

Another reason for it staying in third gear could be due to the Winter mode switch being stuck in or wiring fault relating to Winter mode selection (the big button behind the gear selector marked "W" as that puts the car in to the third to avoid wheel spin on ice/ snow - Mike

I like your thinking Mike but i would have hoped they might have thought about that.

Have just checked on Ebay and it seems that i should be able to pick up two cars for the cost of this misdiagnosed box and the wasted repairs!

Seems like I've been mugged - like some gruesome slow motion crash.

I may as well tell them to take it to the tip!!!!

Pozzouk.

[mikealder]

Originally Posted by Pozzouk

I like your thinking Mike but i would have hoped they might have thought about that.

Don't assume anything with a garage, they have lead you a merry dance so far from the sounds of it - Mike

[960kg]

Please excuse me for being up front but so far in 12 pages you have only replaced a sensor with a "chinese one"

If you keep on going to garages you will only get more of the stealers concept as you are laid open to it in this financial climate, the Volvo Dealers do become stealers as everyone else does!

Instead of paying the dealers £700 why don`t you just replace the sensors that give you error codes instead of going into volts for this volts for that.

I am not surprised you are frustrated with all the volts as it does prove bugger all.

If you have an error code by all means clean the contacts but at the end of the day it does mean a new sensor or what can you do, nothing!

What are you going to do if the volts are wrong?

So why don`t you just replace?

The frustration caused can drive one mad as i have been there, just buy what is needed then when the engine is ok, then move on if need be with the box.

[Chris_Rogers]

"that it threw code 0023"

Here is the diagnostic info for: TCM-0023.

TCM-0023 Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) information
Condition
The transmission speed signal is transmitted by a sensor on the transmission. The transmission control module (TCM) uses the signal to determine the input shaft speed after the torque converter. This signal is used to compare the transmission speed and vehicle speed. The transmission control module (TCM) uses this comparison to calculate gear-shift timing. RPM and vehicle speed data affects the adjustment of system pressure, lock-up function control and engine torque- reduction. The result is smooth gear-shifting. The control module derives and compares the transmission speed, engine speed (RPM) and speed (RPM) at the transmission. Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) TCM-0023 is stored if the control module registers that the speed (RPM) signal is missing.

Substitute value
-No torque reduction
-No lock-up

Possible source
-Contact resistance in terminals.
-Open-circuit on power supply.
-Open-circuit in the signal cable.
-Defective input speed sensor.

Fault symptom[s]
-General orange warning lamp lit.
-Malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) lit.
-No lock-up function.
-Harsh gear shifting.
Hint: Harsh gear shifting can be caused by:
-No adaptation of the gear slippage times at high altitude (High Altitude Compensation).
-No reduction of line pressure when shifting.
-No reduction of line pressure when moving the gear selector between positions P–R, N–R and N–D.
-No torque limiting request to engine control module (ECM) when shifting.

Note there is no mention of comparison between the engine speed sensor and the transmission input sensor (that is done for code TCM-0024 which is not logged).

If it were me I'd replace the input sensor, it seems a small financial risk compared with the other alternatives.

[Pozzouk]

Originally Posted by 960kg

Please excuse me for being up front but so far in 12 pages you have only replaced a sensor with a "chinese one"

If you keep on going to garages you will only get more of the stealers concept as you are laid open to it in this financial climate, the Volvo Dealers do become stealers as everyone else does!

Excuse me 960kg, BUT

I guess you must have been reading the wrong post and have confused this with another thread, as i certainly have never replaced any part of my car with anything Chinese! - that is unless DENSO LAMBDA SENSORS have mis-spelt Japan as stated on the box in front of me!

Ironically, i do believe you were the poster that finally tipped me over the edge in going to an official Volvo dealer - as i could not fathom the problem i had succumbed to.

Only to find, that having put their own secret £15.31p per liter oil in my gear box - take it for a test drive - tell me it was working fine but needed a further £700.00 pounds worth of repairs to get the car into top shape, only for them then to take it for a further test drive after the extra work only to conclude that the gearbox is a wrecker and........................

Just for those wondering on the latest - they have since come up with a quote for £2,034 to fit a re-con gearbox minus 10% on the original £700 repairs due to inconvenience = £2,989.00 for a car worth - errrrrrr £1,500 max. That value is not their fault of course but i sought firm assurance from them that the work was worth while - they felt that having completed these works that the car should give good service once the camshaft pulley, belt and associated parts were replaced.

As for "stealers" as you rightfully put it - having being given crap advice from them four years ago regarding the stop neutral foot brake jolting they supposedly still fail to recognize this software/mechanical glitch cure exists http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...neutral&page=2 i conclude they are either darn right liars or completely incompetent - Who knows perhaps it's both.

End of.

My apologies to those thoroughly bored with this retched Saga but there is an easy option either don't bother reading it - As for the others, be warned, do it yourself or throw it away.

The truth is, that if Volvo didn't play these ludicrous secret little games of theirs then i could have sought sensible advice elsewhere. I had my suspicions about their integrity and unfortunately as 960kg points out they have joined the "stealers".

Pozzouk.

[Pozzouk]

Originally Posted by Chris_Rogers

"that it threw code 0023"

Here is the diagnostic info for: TCM-0023.

TCM-0023 Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) information
Condition
The transmission speed signal is transmitted by a sensor on the transmission. The transmission control module (TCM) uses the signal to determine the input shaft speed after the torque converter. This signal is used to compare the transmission speed and vehicle speed. The transmission control module (TCM) uses this comparison to calculate gear-shift timing. RPM and vehicle speed data affects the adjustment of system pressure, lock-up function control and engine torque- reduction. The result is smooth gear-shifting. The control module derives and compares the transmission speed, engine speed (RPM) and speed (RPM) at the transmission. Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) TCM-0023 is stored if the control module registers that the speed (RPM) signal is missing.

If it were me I'd replace the input sensor, it seems a small financial risk compared with the other alternatives.

Thanks Chris, you're not kidding about the cost - I trust you have had time to see my previous post!!!

I have to be honest, actually getting any info regarding the fault codes has been to put it mildly akin to pulling hens teeth and only achievable by being quite firm that i wanted to know what the generated code was and then remaining silent - hence they told me it was TCM0023.

They tell me, that there are two sensors involved, and that as the car was taken further and warmed up a little the information that flows between these, or maybe they said from these, diverged and ultimately the gap between the two becomes too large and the car slumps into a constant 3rd gear (or safe mode as they put it).

The mad thing is, I told them all of these symptoms before the big gamble of letting them fill it with their "wonder fluid" & flush (£15.31 a liter what a stitch up). Then they try telling me, having presented it to them Monday in safe mode (jammed in 3rd gear) that it was not possible to detect the TCM0023 code without doing the cam-work - you guy's know better than me?

Surely Chris, they would know of the sensor you mention............yeah i wonder?!?!

ATB Pozzouk.

PS. £2,989.00 for a 99 V70 any offers???????

[Chris_Rogers]

I did read you post and feel for you.
I guess you are at a point now where you have spent a lot of money and have a car no better than you started with.

My suggestion is to risk spending a relatively small extra sum on an input sensor you can change yourself, maybe you can get one from a scrap car.
Potentially you can have the car working again with little extra financial risk.

[KBB]

I have found this thread very interesting and you are clearly threaders with the situation. I have to disagree with 960kg, changing components on the strenth of a fault code is not the way forward. The are plenty of examples on here where parts have been changed as per fault code and no fix has resulted on occasions you may just get lucky Industry wide 80% of electrical issues are down to a wiring fault (opens, short & high resistance). These systems have to be diagnosed preferably by people who are trained and have the equipment.

I'am fully aware that dealerships have various levels of skill and beleive me Volvo are not alone in this. Automatic transmissions are complexed and many main dealers (of many big makes) opt to fit a replacement because if the are any come backs its down to the transmission supplier. All transmissions supplied to main dealers are remanafactured on a sub contract basis by an AW authorised repair centre.

But back to your issues, if I were taking this on I would clear down all codes and start again and see what is being set at the time of the fault and see if a consistant fault condition is taking place. The are many faults that will place an automatic into 3rd gear fault and some will not set the MIL on. To be totaly honest I would be deploying a 4 channel pico oscilloscope. The are some simple tests that you can do first if you have a decent DVM.