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New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

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Old May 28th, 2020, 17:27   #1171
Othen
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Plumbing fittings? They're bona fide hydraulic fittings i found Alan, can also be used for pneumatics and gas.

I was going to suggest that when you changed the gearbox, for the extra 6 bolts, take the drive plate (automatics version of a flywheel) off the crank and renew the rear crank seal.

Back in 1980, most 2.0 manuals ran about 20mph/1000rpm so 70mph equated to 3500rpm so 3750rpm in an auto wouldn't have been out of the way at all. In fact most autos up to about 3.0 did as well.

I know of a few exceptions but once you got above 3.0, things changed dramatically, 25 and even 30mph/1000rpm were the norm. A 4.2 Jag for example would have been doing 112.5mph @ 3750rpm and an SD1 V8 would have been doing 93.5mph at the same engine speed.

It was seen as a luxury thing to have relaxed cruising, now it's seen as an economy thing so manufacturers followed that idea and many owners of classics ranging from the smallest to the biggest have retro-fitted 4-speed overdrive autos. It's very popular in the Stag fraternity i believe, using the ZF 4HP22 from the later Range Rovers and similar. Volvo also used the same box on the 740 so that might be an option instead of the AW70/71 but for preference, the AW70 or 71 would be better.
I know about the fittings Dave - I read the suppliers' specs. I roughed the job out with some bits of string and tape the other day and imagined having brass fittings in the engine bay (hence plumbing fittings).It looks like I will have to manufacture two brackets - one to mount the ATF cooler behind the grille, and another to hold the two cooling lines securely when they don't have a solid connection to the radiator for support. Neither will be complex.

I certainly agree about renewing the rear crank seal - I thought I'd mentioned it somewhere (but maybe the dementia is setting in early).

I remember having a Mazda with an auto box in maybe 1990 (either a 323 or a 626, I forget which), that was the same - about 3500RPM at 70MPH, but that seemed entirely normal in those days (... and so did 25MPG).

The AW71 conversion seems fairly straightforward, the TB article doesn't come up with many snags. It looks like the BW55 and AW71 use the same torque converter and the speedo drive is interchangeable, which is good. The only things to sort should be the transmission tunnel brace, shifter linkage, propshaft and cooling.

Stay safe,

Alan

Last edited by Othen; May 28th, 2020 at 19:05.
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Old May 28th, 2020, 18:06   #1172
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Yes but only after i'd already provided the link to the hydraulic fittings!
Ridiculous.

One cannot check for anything better, before the original suggestion has been posted.

Now. There really is, again, nothing to see here.

A good time to move on. In my opinion.


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Old May 28th, 2020, 23:02   #1173
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I know about the fittings Dave - I read the suppliers' specs. I roughed the job out with some bits of string and tape the other day and imagined having brass fittings in the engine bay (hence plumbing fittings).It looks like I will have to manufacture two brackets - one to mount the ATF cooler behind the grille, and another to hold the two cooling lines securely when they don't have a solid connection to the radiator for support. Neither will be complex.

I certainly agree about renewing the rear crank seal - I thought I'd mentioned it somewhere (but maybe the dementia is setting in early).

I remember having a Mazda with an auto box in maybe 1990 (either a 323 or a 626, I forget which), that was the same - about 3500RPM at 70MPH, but that seemed entirely normal in those days (... and so did 25MPG).

The AW71 conversion seems fairly straightforward, the TB article doesn't come up with many snags. It looks like the BW55 and AW71 use the same torque converter and the speedo drive is interchangeable, which is good. The only things to sort should be the transmission tunnel brace, shifter linkage, propshaft and cooling.

Stay safe,

Alan
I'd suggest the bracket for the cooling pipes from the gearbox be mounted on the side of the engine somewhere convenient Alan. Then the 10mm bore hoses will take all the flex.

I've contacted the person that's converting his 940 to manual and will have an AW70 looking for a new home and the propshaft too. I'll PM you his details including his number shortly and he says if you drop him a text, he'll send the measurements of the box and propshaft one evening this week. That way you can compare the measurements to those of your own box and propshaft and double check things like how far back the centre bearing is on the propshaft (would be worth renewing that for the cost of it while it's off, about £20 as it's shared by Sherpas, Land Rovers, Fronteras etc) and any other queries etc.

Not sure how soon he's doing it but he has all the bits as far as i know so should work nicely between the two of you.

If it's any help, the Mazda 323 was a small hatchback (1300 or 1500 engine usually) and the 626 was a Cavalier/Cortina sized 4 door saloon, previously called the Montrose, usually with a 2.0 although there was a 1.6 available.
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Old May 28th, 2020, 23:46   #1174
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I'd suggest the bracket for the cooling pipes from the gearbox be mounted on the side of the engine somewhere convenient Alan. Then the 10mm bore hoses will take all the flex.

I've contacted the person that's converting his 940 to manual and will have an AW70 looking for a new home and the propshaft too. I'll PM you his details including his number shortly and he says if you drop him a text, he'll send the measurements of the box and propshaft one evening this week. That way you can compare the measurements to those of your own box and propshaft and double check things like how far back the centre bearing is on the propshaft (would be worth renewing that for the cost of it while it's off, about £20 as it's shared by Sherpas, Land Rovers, Fronteras etc) and any other queries etc.

Not sure how soon he's doing it but he has all the bits as far as i know so should work nicely between the two of you.

If it's any help, the Mazda 323 was a small hatchback (1300 or 1500 engine usually) and the 626 was a Cavalier/Cortina sized 4 door saloon, previously called the Montrose, usually with a 2.0 although there was a 1.6 available.
I think the ATF lines bracket would have to go onto the offside wing Dave the rubber engine mounts would probably fracture the solid pipes if bolted to the motor. The bracket should not be a problem though, I could have it made up from a pattern before starting the job. I could use it to spread the two pipes by perhaps 20mm to allow me to squeeze the compression joints in as well.

The chap with the AW71 and I have established communications - I think we may be able to come up with a plan that suits us both. It looks like his schedule to change to the M90 might be in the New Year, so I'll go over with a tape measure then. If all is well and we can do a deal then he is happy to give me a hand with his hoist to pull the engine/box out here and swap it on the ground - change the crank rear bearing at the same time. I'm pretty sure the swap could be done in a day if I get everything ready and available.

I'm getting bored with fixing Volvo's crappy insulation on the electrical wiring in the engine compartment, so I'm thinking I'll make a new loom (just for the engine bay) and fit it with the engine out. There might be a few other housekeeping jobs to do at the same time.

This is still at the planning stage at the moment - but it does look like it might be feasible to co-ordinate changing the AW71>M90 and BW55>AW71 projects together for our mutual benefit.

Many thanks for your help.

I recall the 323 and 626 both very well, I had both whilst living in Cyprus in the late 80s (Mazda was the most popular car in Cyprus in those days). I'm pretty sure the auto was one of the 323s I owned (I had 3 at different times - and owned the last of them until about 5 years ago). I think it was a 1500cc carburettor SOHC engine and a 3 speed auto. I'm pretty sure I drove that car back from Cyprus and ran it in the UK for a while before giving it to a girlfriend. It was low geared (as all cars were in those days), but a really good motor. The best Mazda I had was a 323 DOHC 16v 1.6 - a very fast car for the day.

Alan
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Old May 29th, 2020, 00:34   #1175
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I think the ATF lines bracket would have to go onto the offside wing Dave the rubber engine mounts would probably fracture the solid pipes if bolted to the motor. The bracket should not be a problem though, I could have it made up from a pattern before starting the job. I could use it to spread the two pipes by perhaps 20mm to allow me to squeeze the compression joints in as well.
Bolting the bracket with the ATF lines in to the wing would definitely fracture them Alan!

Think about it - the lines are bolted to the gearbox, the gearbox is bolted to the bellhousing which in turn is bolted to the back of the engine. When the engine moves on its mounts, so does the gearbox. That means the pipes do as well. That's why i said bolt the bracket onto the engine and let the rubber pipes take the flexing.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spark-Plu...E/202335512544

Those would work well to separate the pipes and make the bracket easier to make from a simple piece of 20 x 3mm flat bar. If you don't like the colour, have a look on ebay for "HT lead separators" or "Hydraulic hose clamps"

Glad you got in touch with Luke, i wondered if he might suggest something along the lines of doing the swap in a day but didn't want to suggest it as i don't know his schedule.
I can see it would work well for both of you that way.
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Old May 29th, 2020, 07:03   #1176
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Bolting the bracket with the ATF lines in to the wing would definitely fracture them Alan!

Think about it - the lines are bolted to the gearbox, the gearbox is bolted to the bellhousing which in turn is bolted to the back of the engine. When the engine moves on its mounts, so does the gearbox. That means the pipes do as well. That's why i said bolt the bracket onto the engine and let the rubber pipes take the flexing.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Spark-Plu...E/202335512544

Those would work well to separate the pipes and make the bracket easier to make from a simple piece of 20 x 3mm flat bar. If you don't like the colour, have a look on ebay for "HT lead separators" or "Hydraulic hose clamps"
I'd considered that, but this needs thinking about a bit Dave. At the moment the lines are bolted solidly to the radiator at one end - which is fixed to the chassis and doesn't move with the engine, the other end is fixed to the gearbox, but at a place close to the centre of rotation. The engine vibrates around quite a bit on the rubber mounts (that is what they are for), and at quite a high frequency (there seems to be a harmonic around 1000RPM, about 20Hz), I'm pretty sure that if I move the lines from their current fixed points on the radiator to a vibrating engine the steel lines will work harden and fail.

I need to think about this before I do anything. My first thought is to replicate what I have now and I know works: which is fix the ends of the lines as close to the radiator end as possible - to the chassis as it is now (and obviously leave the lines in the middle as they are now).

Do you still think the lines should be fixed to the engine?

Alan

PS. The line separators are nice - I'll get some of those, maybe use the outer races of the 4 way item to if necessary to get enough clearance for the compression fittings.

PPS. Changing the engine mounts whilst it is out would also be a good idea.

Last edited by Othen; May 29th, 2020 at 07:24. Reason: Spelling error.
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Old May 29th, 2020, 09:03   #1177
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My first thought is to replicate what I have now and I know works: which is fix the ends of the lines as close to the radiator end as possible - to the chassis as it is now (and obviously leave the lines in the middle as they are now).

Do you still think the lines should be fixed to the engine?

Alan

PS. The line separators are nice - I'll get some of those, maybe use the outer races of the 4 way item to if necessary to get enough clearance for the compression fittings.

PPS. Changing the engine mounts whilst it is out would also be a good idea.
That's what i would have suggested originally Alan, make a bracket that fits to the cross-member the radiator is mounted on. I was trying to persuade you not to mount them on the wing as that's a "detour" from their route and would bring problems. Keeping them as close as possible to their existing route is going to be the best way.

As you're going to mount them as near the radiator as possible, here's what i would suggest :

Use the 2-way separator (you'll probably find the distance between centres is at least 20mm) with a longer bolt and a sleeve nut mounted on a resilient mount mounted on the bracket or wherever is convenient.

The plug leads they're designed for include 8mm diameter leads so are the same outer size as the ATF cooler lines so you could get an idea of the separation from the listing. It might be a better idea to use the two outer slots on the 4-way separator as you suggest if the pipes are mounted one above the other to give more separation between flow and return.

If the engine does come out to change the box (there are pros and cons to doing it that way but it's swings and roundabouts in all fairness) that would be the ideal time to change the engine mounts. I've seen some solid engine mounts for the 240 online, i've also seen hydraulic engine mounts for the 7/940 which i understand are a nice, subtle upgrade but not 100% sure on the "plug'n'play" compatibility. Would bear more investigation!

Might pay to change the gearbox mount too, depending what sort of mounts you have and what's on the new box. Some types are NLA, the others are still available for about a tenner online.

*** EDIT *** This is the later hydraulic engine mount i referred to, it looks plug'n'play and the same type of solid engine mount is fitted to 2/7/9xx models instead so it would pay to check what sort you have and compare the designs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Mo...7/133031925798

It also appears that the engine mounts are handed, whether that's a listing anomaly or if left fits right and vice versa i'm not sure.
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Old May 30th, 2020, 06:59   #1178
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That's what i would have suggested originally Alan, make a bracket that fits to the cross-member the radiator is mounted on. I was trying to persuade you not to mount them on the wing as that's a "detour" from their route and would bring problems. Keeping them as close as possible to their existing route is going to be the best way.

As you're going to mount them as near the radiator as possible, here's what i would suggest :

Use the 2-way separator (you'll probably find the distance between centres is at least 20mm) with a longer bolt and a sleeve nut mounted on a resilient mount mounted on the bracket or wherever is convenient.

The plug leads they're designed for include 8mm diameter leads so are the same outer size as the ATF cooler lines so you could get an idea of the separation from the listing. It might be a better idea to use the two outer slots on the 4-way separator as you suggest if the pipes are mounted one above the other to give more separation between flow and return.

.
Many thanks Dave, that makes good sense as always.
Alan
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Old May 30th, 2020, 07:01   #1179
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If the engine does come out to change the box (there are pros and cons to doing it that way but it's swings and roundabouts in all fairness) that would be the ideal time to change the engine mounts. I've seen some solid engine mounts for the 240 online, i've also seen hydraulic engine mounts for the 7/940 which i understand are a nice, subtle upgrade but not 100% sure on the "plug'n'play" compatibility. Would bear more investigation!

Might pay to change the gearbox mount too, depending what sort of mounts you have and what's on the new box. Some types are NLA, the others are still available for about a tenner online.

*** EDIT *** This is the later hydraulic engine mount i referred to, it looks plug'n'play and the same type of solid engine mount is fitted to 2/7/9xx models instead so it would pay to check what sort you have and compare the designs.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Mo...7/133031925798

It also appears that the engine mounts are handed, whether that's a listing anomaly or if left fits right and vice versa i'm not sure.
Thank you again Dave, I'll have a think about engine mounts.
Stay safe,
Alan
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Old Jun 2nd, 2020, 10:25   #1180
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The RB has taken the back seat (excuse the pun) to other projects (garden decking, a mate's broken Vauxhall and some bikes) for a short while, so there is just one issue to report.

Last week I noticed the oil pressure light flickering on (faintly) - it didn't seem to be engine speed dependent so I suspected there was nothing wrong with the oil pressure - it must be either the switch or the wiring. A minute's inspection revealed the usual suspect: the crappy insulation Volvo used on its wiring in the 1980s. The final 4" of wire to the switch (which, as you chaps will know, sits down by the filter - under the exhaust manifold - where it has been slowly baking for the past 40 years) had no insulation left at all - and was probably earthing against the top of the alternator.

5 minutes with some shrink sheath and the heat gun had it sorted, and there has been no re-occurrence. The poor wiring in the engine compartment is irritating me, the rest of the car is fine, so the issue would appear to be due to heat. This seems to be a very common fault on 1980s and older Volvos. I'm leaning towards making a new loom from the block connector on the front bulkhead forward - probably as a winter project during the SORN period. I think that would be the best long term solution.

I hope this little write up might be useful - check the wiring before the lubrication system.

Stay safe,

Alan
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