Ulez extension in LONDON - S60 Petrol- Not Compliant.

[stuart bowes]

I don't really agree that this is all true, for one thing a bus has like 60 people on it, so per person, the pollution is smaller

also, they are producing greener buses these days.

also in london buses aren't really the main (or only) transport are they, it's more about the tube which is all electric

now you can you argue about where that electric comes from and I won't disagree one bit, but we're working towards more green sources which has to be encouraged, obviously

bottom line though for me I can't imagine anyone buys a volvo thinking oo I really want a green economical car .. it's hardly their MO is it.. I bought mine because I wanted a huge boot and comfy seats

anyone who drives into london on a regular basis wouldnt even think of it, they'd buy some tiny little hybrid, mostly because it's easier to find somewhere to park the damn thing

finally, if you look on the TFL website they do actually say, we prefer you to find a method that avoids the charge rather than just paying it. obviously though sometimes it can't be avoided just keep it to a minimum

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by stuart bowes

I don't really agree that this is all true, for one thing a bus has like 60 people on it, so per person, the pollution is smaller

also, they are producing greener buses these days.

also in london buses aren't really the main (or only) transport are they, it's more about the tube which is all electric

now you can you argue about where that electric comes from and I won't disagree one bit, but we're working towards more green sources which has to be encouraged, obviously

bottom line though for me I can't imagine anyone buys a volvo thinking oo I really want a green economical car .. it's hardly their MO is it.. I bought mine because I wanted a huge boot and comfy seats

anyone who drives into london on a regular basis wouldnt even think of it, they'd buy some tiny little hybrid, mostly because it's easier to find somewhere to park the damn thing

finally, if you look on the TFL website they do actually say, we prefer you to find a method that avoids the charge rather than just paying it. obviously though sometimes it can't be avoided just keep it to a minimum

Fair points, but if a bus holds say 60 people, how many buses will you have to have to handle the passengers? Buses are greener than they used to be, but buses have massive engines, as do wagons. The average car has what, a 2.0L engine? Whereas a wagon has a 9.0L engine. The bigger the engine, the more emissions that come from it. Even if a wagon is “euro 6”, it’ll still release more fumes than the average car. What about other parts of the country that don’t have a tube network? Its all well & good saying London, but what about Manchester? This emission zone is coming here too.

Hybrids… another grey area. They still have Petrol or Diesel engines. In a few years time (2030 I think), you won’t be able to get these engines because the plan is to be fully electric. That’s a long way off yet, but it’ll be upon us before we know it & buying a hybrid will also be pointless.

For most people, electric cars aren’t affordable. Even a small little dinky car is crazily priced. I seen a fully electric van the other day for £70k!!! So what does that mean? More people will either continue to use their older cars & maybe even pay the ULEZ charge (money), go on public transport (more money for the Government) or buy an electric car (again, more money). Money won’t reduce emissions & all the money will go into a big lucrative pot.

[MDS40]

Just rechecked on another site and it seems my car is compliant at 217 g/km and Euro 4.

The £ 15 to £ 17.50 is just the congestion charge.

[stuart bowes]

doesn't Manchester have a Tram network or something? I've never been there to be fair so I dont know

I assumed this was all about London, apologies for that!

I don't know the actual statistics but surely if each bus takes approx even 20 or 30 cars off the road it would be a reduction in emissions? and that's a conservative estimate if the bus is only half full. there's no way a bus engine is 30 times larger than a car engine, surely

to be honest though, that aside, the reason I don't like buses is having to mix with all the other people lol that might sound snooty but im sure i'm not the only one, and then when something like covid or other bugs are going around, it's a REALLY bad idea. so what's more important in that instance, stopping the virus or cleaning up the planet

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by stuart bowes

doesn't Manchester have a Tram network or something? I've never been there to be fair so I dont know

I assumed this was all about London, apologies for that!

I don't know the actual statistics but surely if each bus takes approx even 20 or 30 cars off the road it would be a reduction in emissions? and that's a conservative estimate if the bus is only half full. there's no way a bus engine is 30 times larger than a car engine, surely

to be honest though, that aside, the reason I don't like buses is having to mix with all the other people lol that might sound snooty but im sure i'm not the only one, and then when something like covid or other bugs are going around, it's a REALLY bad idea. so what's more important in that instance, stopping the virus or cleaning up the planet

Manchester has a tram network, but no tube. The only problem is, there isn’t enough trams or enough “park and ride” facilities to make more people get trams. “Park & ride” being park your car up at a designated spot that a tram stops at, then jump on that to your destination. There’s one fairly close to where I live, but its not walking distance either. You’d need to get a bus or a taxi to it, so people don’t bother & just drive to the city centre because you have to drive in the opposite direction to get to the park & ride car park!

Buses have massive engines, as do wagons. For example, a wagon that carries aggregates like stone etc have engines as big as 9.0 litres (the majority do anyway). I wouldn’t think a bus is too far behind.

Yes, if x amount of people get a bus instead of driving, it will reduce emissions. There’s the problem of having to increase the bus network to cope… unless they plan on driving around with half full buses. The other thing I fail to understand is this… you and I have older cars. The Government don’t want them being driven into cities & if we want to, we have to pay. What difference is paying going to make? It’ll mean more people get public transport or change cars to something more environmentally friendly (money). So what we’ll end up with is clean air around the cities & dirty air in other places outside the city (those that don’t drive to the city, or can’t because their car doesn’t meet the requirements or because they won’t pay the ULEZ charge) will continue to drive outside the city as normal. What’s the point in making one area cleaner (the city) & not everywhere else?

I know the day will come where I’ll have to change my car, as if you don’t get public transport, its literally your only option (petrol or diesel will be banned eventually). Either you pay the congestion charge & ULEZ charge, use public transport or buy an electric car. All of which involve money. So you can see my point where the ULEZ zone isn’t solely about emissions, money (massive sums) are involved.

[marcb]

As noted don't confuse the congestion charge with ULEZ.

ULEZ - £12.50 for cars and same up to midnight on 3rd day after

Congestion charge - £15 (paid on day) or £17.50 up to 3 days after

Our 2005 2.5T is ULEZ compliant and I presume one of the early Euro 4 models.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by marcb

As noted don't confuse the congestion charge with ULEZ.

ULEZ - £12.50 for cars and same up to midnight on 3rd day after

Congestion charge - £15 (paid on day) or £17.50 up to 3 days after

Our 2005 2.5T is ULEZ compliant and I presume one of the early Euro 4 models.

Yes, another rip off money making scheme...

A congestion charge no matter what vehicle you drive***, but no ULEZ for some. I believe taxis are free**

Then you have a congestion charge + ULEZ fee if you’re driving an older vehicle.

Either way, its to extract money & not just about emissions. The sums that will be made will be eye watering, but like road tax, its not used to fix pot holes.

[marcb]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

Yes, another rip off money making scheme...

A congestion charge no matter what vehicle you drive & a congestion charge + ULEZ fee if you’re driving an older one.

No, there are a range of exemptions to the congestion charge such as for blue badge holders and taxis.

Reducing congestion and pollution is vital and no one is forced to pay the charges.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by marcb

No, there are a range of exemptions to the congestion charge such as for blue badge holders and taxis.

Reducing congestion and pollution is vital and no one is forced to pay the charges.

You think so?

So if you don’t own a compliant car or don’t wish to pay congestion charges, your only option is use public transport, cycle or walk. If you do own a complaint car, you don’t have to pay a ULEZ fee, but have to pay a congestion charge like everyone else (providing you aren’t a taxi, blue badge holder). So how is it not forced upon you? Same as if you have to trade your car in for a newer model, whether it be a hybrid or electric model. Its costing you money, no matter which way you look at it.

Guaranteed ticket prices/fares will go up, so the charges will be paid for somehow (by the person getting on the bus, train etc), or the people paying the congestion charge.

Its going to cost companies money to keep vehicles that travel frequently in the city, such as wagons delivering goods on the road. Do you think the companies are going to take that cost upon themselves, up on top of what they already have to pay in terms of large fuel bills, insurance etc? No, the consumer will pay for it.

What about planes, probably the biggest polluters? Are we going to ground them, or make electric ones?

[marcb]

Originally Posted by Kev0607

[/B]

So if you don’t own a compliant car or don’t wish to pay congestion charges, your only option is use public transport, cycle or walk. If you do own a complaint car, you don’t have to pay a ULEZ fee, but have to pay a congestion charge like everyone else (providing you aren’t a taxi, blue badge holder). So how is it not forced upon you?
Its going to cost companies money to keep vehicles that travel frequently in the city, such as wagons delivering goods on the road. Do you think the companies are going to take that cost upon themselves, up on top of what they already have to pay in terms of large fuel bills, insurance etc? No, the consumer will pay for it.

I live just north of the CC zone and really have no need to drive into it. If we want to go to the west end it's far more sensible to get the tube or bus. This is not the great hardship you think it is. If the tube or bus or taxis or legs didn't exist you have a point.

A £15 charge on vehicles making multiple drops in the west end or city is not the end of the world either. It just seems that way to folk up north I guess.

ULEZ is different as it's aimed at getting older polluting vehicles off the roads and mainly hits diesels as even our 16 year petrol Volvo is compliant. No one can argue against curbing pollution.