Dilemma - R reg 940 MOT failure - advice please..

[volvo always]

Originally Posted by aardvarkash10

you guys really have lost track of the economics of running an auto workshop.

Parts are marked up to cover the cost of sourcing, purchasing and guaranteeing them. Typically 50 to 75%. The fact you can get it from FCP or other suppliers at a particular price doesn't mean that's what a workshop has to sell it for to stay in business.

If I were quoting on that MOT I'd allow a full brake rebuild including potential master cylinder (the bleeding often causes travel into the old "dead zone" cutting the cups). So thats pads all round, handbrake kit, disc at the front, possibly at the rear, disc machining at a minimum for the rear. Possible new slider pins.

Ball joints

ABS sensor including cost of new lump hammer and gallons of spray anti-seize!

Not sure if the oil leak is included in the quote, but that could be anything from front to rear seals, or just a breather blocked. Hard to know.

I'm not sure what hourly rates are in the UK, but typically they are 3X the technician pay rate as a rough guide. I see about 6 hours, possibly a bit more in that lot. And of course VAT.

1700 quid all up including exhaust is at the upper end but not excessive imo. YMMV.

The garages I go to seem to charge around £40 an hour. Main dealers £100 There is no sourcing costs as use the phone to order from GSF/ECP etc.
Once had fitted a unipart ball joint to get through Irish MOT. Failed after 6 months. Had to buy a new one, genuine this time and Labour!

I'm also a Plumber and do not mark up items. I myself would feel dishonest! If I buy a radiator at £40, that's what the customer pays me for it.

James.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by aardvarkash10

you guys really have lost track of the economics of running an auto workshop.

Parts are marked up to cover the cost of sourcing, purchasing and guaranteeing them. Typically 50 to 75%. The fact you can get it from FCP or other suppliers at a particular price doesn't mean that's what a workshop has to sell it for to stay in business.

If I were quoting on that MOT I'd allow a full brake rebuild including potential master cylinder (the bleeding often causes travel into the old "dead zone" cutting the cups). So thats pads all round, handbrake kit, disc at the front, possibly at the rear, disc machining at a minimum for the rear. Possible new slider pins.

Ball joints

ABS sensor including cost of new lump hammer and gallons of spray anti-seize!

Not sure if the oil leak is included in the quote, but that could be anything from front to rear seals, or just a breather blocked. Hard to know.

I'm not sure what hourly rates are in the UK, but typically they are 3X the technician pay rate as a rough guide. I see about 6 hours, possibly a bit more in that lot. And of course VAT.

1700 quid all up including exhaust is at the upper end but not excessive imo. YMMV.

Your business would fail very quickly Ash!

Parts mark up as we all know is about 100% minimum, the supplier bears the brunt of the warranty costs so it's just the labour you have to foresee covering. Often that can be reclaimed from the supplier as well.

Second, pressure bleed the brakes - no need to mutilate a working master cylinder - time enough for it to fail by itself later if it's going to. Then you have another repair that was nothing to do with what you did. Reputation remains intact too!

Disc machining? Good luck with getting anyone to pay for that in this country! With a new pair of rear discs/shoes included in the handbrake kit for ~£75 cost, if you can convince the customer to have a handbrake kit for £150 then it gets new discs as well on the rear.
This isn't a good example of why disc machining has never been popular here, the cost of new discs Vs the cost of having the old ones machined is often cheaper. I know stateside it's a different story and i suspect in NZ as well but here, not a snowballs!

Depending on the garage, labour to the victim - errrrr, customer, is from about £40/hr upwards. Go to a main stealer and put a 1 in front of the 40, minimum, some places (like Porsche, BMW, Mercedes etc) have been rumoured to charge £200+/hr.

Thing is, somebody always knows someone who does mechanics on the side, granted you take a chance they know what they're doing on a particularl model but nevertheless it's a considerable saving when you're looking at £Stupid/hr for labour and there's a good chance they've done it right.

That said, i've known of a lot of Honda/Rover models where the rear calipers have been wrecked because someone didn't follow the procedure correctly resulting in new calipers, new pads and new discs to rectify the situation.

The oil leak is probably the PCV system blocked, clean it out, runs it with some ATF-U in with the engine oil and then do an oil/filter change substituting the first 0.5L of engine oil with ATF-U and then top up with semi-synth 10W40, should be good to go. Possible it's cam seals or maybe cam cover gasket but check the simple, easy stuff first.

[aardvarkash10]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Your business would fail very quickly Ash!

I was managing a VW/Audi second tier workshop in SW6 in the 1980s - it was a licence to print money at those % markups.

In fact it was very similar to what working on a x40 series would be now. It was mostly air-cooled VW stuff so 10 to 25 years old (or more) then, unobtainium parts ex the dealers but lots of second level vendors, and a simple but unusual mechanical design that meant other workshops would pass the work on.

Auto engineering is a near-zero cost of entry business. If the costs are considered too high, customers have options and the market allows new businesses ot set up easily. Costs are largely well contained in this environment.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by aardvarkash10

I was managing a VW/Audi second tier workshop in SW6 in the 1980s - it was a licence to print money at those % markups.

In fact it was very similar to what working on a x40 series would be now. It was mostly air-cooled VW stuff so 10 to 25 years old (or more) then, unobtainium parts ex the dealers but lots of second level vendors, and a simple but unusual mechanical design that meant other workshops would pass the work on.

Auto engineering is a near-zero cost of entry business. If the costs are considered too high, customers have options and the market allows new businesses ot set up easily. Costs are largely well contained in this environment.

You would have made good money in the 1980s, especially in SW6 running a predominantly niche market garage.

With the advent of t'internet, things have changed considerably. Back then you had Swedish and German advertising in car magazines, mostly mail order - you sent them a letter with what you wanted, they phoned you for your card details or you included a cheque with your order, you got the parts 28 days later.

Fast forward 20-30 years and Swedish & German have become GSF (German, Swedish and French) and you can click on your computer/laptop/tablet/phone and a young lady (usually) delivers it in a van a short while later. Meanwhile you've paid by debit card or similar so all the sourcing is done in a matter of seconds, you're a bona-fide auto repair business so as per the guarantee terms it's been fitted by a competent person so when it breaks, GSF cough up a replacement and something for your time fitting it and you fit the replacement.

Meanwhile Joe Pubic has got hold of GSFs web address and found the part you charged £99.99 for is in fact available after their discount for £22.76 (normal cost £49.99) and has come hot-footing it into your workshop screaming and shouting and demanding to know why you're ripping him off for nearly £80!

Then the word goes round you're a rip-off merchant, a scammer and a general dropkick and you're business is gone before you know it.

[aardvarkash10]

^concur Dave.

Pity I can't do the same with my dentist.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by aardvarkash10

^concur Dave.

Pity I can't do the same with my dentist.

What's a dentist?

Seriously though, i have an intense phobia of them, last time i was sat in a waiting room (not even going in, just waiting) i had a major panic attack, ran out as if the hounds of hell were chasing me turning all the colours of the rainbow plus a few others nobody could describe, shaking, sweating, heart racing, sweaty palms - the list goes on.

That was 15+ years ago now, time before that was 30+ years and i wasn't quite so bad but the dentist threw a sickie the day i was meant to have my wisdom teeth out. The phobia has just got worse from then but it started as a kid. These days i could probably have the dentist concerned done for assault on a minor but back then it wasn't even heard of.

[mopedmick]

Not quite sure how people are comparing paying a business and doing it yourself, some people are not at all inclined or indeed have the spare time to do so, like everything in life get a 2 or 3 quotes, as for people saying euro car parts are cheap, you are joking, I have been in the motor trade for over 25 years & there are plenty of motor factors with honest pricing, euros are all about highly inflated prices with discount codes that still end up expensive, they started out cheap but have not been for quite some time.....

[loki_the_glt]

My local independent charges around £45p/h and is quite happy for me to source parts for the Valdez, not least because it saves him time (which equals money), and many other similar garages may also do likewise.

Main dealers have larger overheads - often flashy premises, certainly the latest diagnostic kit, possibly even bespoke uniforms. Back in the 1980s I knew of one Scottish dealership that had franchises for both Jaguar/Daimler and Rolls-Royce/Bentley. The same mechanics, sorry "service technicians", worked on both families, but those whose Rolls-Royce was serviced paid double what the Jaguar owner paid per hour. The only difference was the overalls, and presumably a time element for exhanging Jaguar for Roll-Royce had to be factored in!

[tofufi]

I've sent a PM

[Laird Scooby]

Nice one Jim!