Oh best beloved, How the P1 got its Transmission Cooler

[CNGBiFuel]

I am sorry to say there is a helluva lot of utter, utter hogwash written on Volvo transmissions, re the ATF changes, which ATF and the need (or not) for a cooler. It never ceases. I am sorry, those subsribing to the Volvo mantra will disagree yet this persists and all that surrounds it. I've written a thread:

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=235190

[rogerthechorister]

I am gradually educating myself on this - my 960 is 95/6 but only 60,000 miles. Among the things I got my mecco to do immediately after I bought her was change the ATF. I HOPE he did it right and he was a Volvo specialist.

She has NOT got the additional Volvo ATF cooler (which is NLA at Volvo for teh mark 2 960 although it is available for the mark 1 at nearly £400 for the kit!)

It was a while before I used her for towing. A bit of boot up a motorway hill (M2 towards Maidstone from the Medway bridge) little light van on the back, to overtake a lorry, and the engine coolant temperature was heading for the red. It did not reach the red. It got a smidgeon over halfway there.

Slowed down, turned on the heater, and all was fine.

SO I had the thermostat changed - it was a funny red colour and bent, so maybe not fully opening. Some improvement. But an intentional test on the M20 (heading into London) - problem still there but not as bad. I also noted that on twisty little country roads with hills the box was reluctant to change down. I decided that this indicated that the problem was the ATF getting hot and dumping the excess heat into the rad. Of course they have the internal ATF cooler on the mark 2 960). No I did not reach the stage of the little illuminated arrow appearing.

So I had the rad flushed and backflushed. Again a little bit of improvement - but not a total fix.

Then I had a new rad. Again, she is better - and I gather that it is preferred to tow with the box in sport mode and even in third rather than drive - apparently to persuade the box to lock up in the lower gear and not to churn heat into the torque converter. It sort of makes sense. But I STILL managed to provoke her coming up Bluebell Hill (A229) today.

So I'm going to have an external ATF cooler fitted in front of the rad and take the Volvo ATF cooler inside the rad out of circuit. This should reduce heat input into the rad (I do NOT want to blow the head gasket by overheating) and if it's up to the job keep the ATF cool. I'm told that this is normal in Australia on all 960s.

Since this is an RWD car I'd be interested to know definitively and precisely what AT fluid I should be using. I might change it again just to be sure.

[phil1968]

Originally Posted by rogerthechorister

It sort of makes sense. But I STILL managed to provoke her coming up Bluebell Hill (A229) today.

I have memories in the late 70s of my father towing a 3-berth Eldis caravan up Bluebell Hill on our way home to Rochester, fully loaded with my Mum, me & my brother & sister in a 1968 Mk.2 Ford Cortina 1600GT estate. He would end up in first gear about half way up & had not only the engine driven fan but a back-up Kenlowe electric fan which he used to turn on manually on that hill too :-)

[Lamp Swinger]

Originally Posted by phil1968

I have memories in the late 70s of my father towing a 3-berth Eldis caravan up Bluebell Hill on our way home to Rochester, fully loaded with my Mum, me & my brother & sister in a 1968 Mk.2 Ford Cortina 1600GT estate. He would end up in first gear about half way up & had not only the engine driven fan but a back-up Kenlowe electric fan which he used to turn on manually on that hill too :-)

I romped up Bluebell Hill on the way back to our storage site at Hoo. The XC60 made the effortless climb with our Coachman Vision with power to spare. We had a Ford Maverick 2.4i (petrol) in 1996 that did the same as your Dad's Cortina. It crawled up at 30mph in 2nd gear, absolutely gutless, yet solo it was a dream.

David

[CNGBiFuel]

I am gradually educating myself on this - my 960 is 95/6 but only 60,000 miles. Among the things I got my mecco to do immediately after I bought her was change the ATF. I HOPE he did it right and he was a Volvo specialist.

She has NOT got the additional Volvo ATF cooler (which is NLA at Volvo for teh mark 2 960 although it is available for the mark 1 at nearly £400 for the kit!)

It was a while before I used her for towing. A bit of boot up a motorway hill (M2 towards Maidstone from the Medway bridge) little light van on the back, to overtake a lorry, and the engine coolant temperature was heading for the red. It did not reach the red. It got a smidgeon over halfway there.

Slowed down, turned on the heater, and all was fine.

SO I had the thermostat changed - it was a funny red colour and bent, so maybe not fully opening. Some improvement. But an intentional test on the M20 (heading into London) - problem still there but not as bad. I also noted that on twisty little country roads with hills the box was reluctant to change down. I decided that this indicated that the problem was the ATF getting hot and dumping the excess heat into the rad. Of course they have the internal ATF cooler on the mark 2 960). No I did not reach the stage of the little illuminated arrow appearing.

So I had the rad flushed and backflushed. Again a little bit of improvement - but not a total fix.

Then I had a new rad. Again, she is better - and I gather that it is preferred to tow with the box in sport mode and even in third rather than drive - apparently to persuade the box to lock up in the lower gear and not to churn heat into the torque converter. It sort of makes sense. But I STILL managed to provoke her coming up Bluebell Hill (A229) today.

So I'm going to have an external ATF cooler fitted in front of the rad and take the Volvo ATF cooler inside the rad out of circuit. This should reduce heat input into the rad (I do NOT want to blow the head gasket by overheating) and if it's up to the job keep the ATF cool. I'm told that this is normal in Australia on all 960s.

Since this is an RWD car I'd be interested to know definitively and precisely what AT fluid I should be using. I might change it again just to be sure.
__________________

I won't pretend to know you partiicualr car but any small oil coller nailed in there will have the same effect. You'd be mad to bother with the factory ift one unless you really think you can't use a bit of Dexion. You should be able to do this job for £50-60 at most. I'll bet your ATF is BLACK!

[rogerthechorister]

Well, I'd had the ATF changed when I bought the car.

I decided to bypass the internal ATF cooler in the radiator and bought a HUGE atf cooler. In fact I bought two because I put the first one in the garage and lost it. I have found it now, anybody want to buy an ATF cooler still in its packaging?

Max my mecco installed it and said the atf was a bit brown. It's all new again now.

So far I have not had a van on the back after the modifications, but it will be soon, I've been running the 960 a fair bit and the gearbox feels fine without a thermostat on the atf cooler, so I am hoping all will be well. If I HAVE to I can put the internal atf cooler in series with the one I have had added, but that will be the last resort as I do NOT want to cook my head gasket on the 960.

And now the next question. One of the big reasons I bought the 960 was that I thought all the 960 estates had locking rear diffs (like the G80 in the 940s) but it seems the IRS estates do not.

Does anybody know where I can get a locker for an IRS 960 estate? The 940 G80 will not fit, I am told.

[CNGBiFuel]

Reading your post again, I see 60,000 miles, so the ATF should be good, it doesn't have a shelf-life! It's at 90+ you'll see it change. The internal cooler does warm the fluid and then have by default a thermostatic function [to a point]. It made internal for a reason, and internal cooler and an external cooler, particularly if with a real thermostat, but on 60,000 miler, you might not need to worry!

I envy you BTW. A 60,000 miler, the damned things a new car.

[rogerthechorister]

Still grief. To re-cap I now have a monster Mishimoto atf cooler in front of the aircon condenser. A friend of mine who tows a much bigger van than mine and is very mechanically minded said "That's the biggest I've ever seen". at the same time I had an expensive change of atf fluid because of the risk of contamination if re-using the almost new previous atf fluid. The internal atf cooler is out of circuit.

Car is fine when not towing. The van is small (an ABI Ace Airstream).

But when towing, even with the aircon off and in sport mode and using 3rd (all as per Volvo recommendations): -

On A and B roads (twisting, turning, accelerating, decelerating, some short hills) the auto box becomes reluctant to change down, and when it does go down sometimes goes down two gears at once.

Second issue - longer hills on small roads the temperature gauge starts to move. On motorway with cruise control set at 60 (Volvo say do not tow at over 50) any long motorway uphill the temperature gauge starts to move. A long steep motorway hill (like up from the Medway valley to the top of Bluebell Hill) and the gauge gets alarming and my nerve cracks and I slow down to avoid damage.

Max the mecco thinks the downchange issue may be to do with a sensor or switch (he seemed very clear what he meant, I was less so) associated with the torque converter.

The near-overheating I am picking up fan relay later today and a complete pack of condenser, rad, fan and shroud, and if a re-inspect of control issues does not solve it then it will have to be custom radiator with much more heat dissipation.

I have got the correct ALD to fit to this vehicle now, but if I cannot solve the above issues I will not bother. AND I clonked the bottom of a sill which will cost me £400 to have sorted. AND there is an issue about the nearside front wing or inner wing or sidelight as the sidelight will not go quite fully home. Getting pretty fed up.

[CNGBiFuel]

The symtoms you speak of are clearly heat related if the car is fine without towing. Heat is the killer of all auto boxes.

More usually I'd look at the ATF but you say this is new. Be sure it looks nice and pink on the dipstick. Maybe someone did a half-baked flush.
If you have a cooler, and a large one I can't see it being lack of cooling, so I look to the ATF as old or the wrong grade.

Mystified is what I am.