Dyrdal's, York - beware hidden charges

[strider]

Have not been on for a while but thought I'd post this to make others aware.

Arrange door repair on S60 with Paul Dyrdal over the phone. Car park damage, dented door. This as recommended by dent repairer (damage too big). Also as he had a V70 door that'd fit in the right colour. He said for door and fit £150, which I said I could live with. This also tied in with estimate from the dent person.

Anyhow, arranged wife to deliver car and suddenly cost becomes £150 PLUS VAT. Now I consider that a bit of a rip-off. I 'phoned and Paul said all prices come with added VAT. He would have told me. He didn't, I'd have remembered the extra cost!

IMHO got a bit uppity when I enquired if the prices of the cars on his forecourt are all plus VAT then! Fair question I thought.

Now I think in this day and age to hide the VAT when dealing with a member of the public is very shoddy. The price I get quoted is the price I expect to pay. It'd be ok when dealing with other trade types but I don't own a business.

Anyhow, just a heads up to be wary. This is the first time I've used Dyrdal and I'm thinking it'd be the last. Shame as I was thinking of upgrading to an XC something (60 or 70) as wife would like higher seating (she has a bad back). Guess I'll look elsewhere now as spidery senses are tingling that I may be ripped-off on that too.

Alex

[capt jack]

A word if I may in defence of Dyrdals.

We've had dealings over many years with Dyrdals, and have always found them to be very fair and more than reasonable. We bought our S70 from them and have been back many times in the interim for repairs and MOT work, both for the S70 and our V70.

I can't comment of the specifics of the OP because clearly I'm not involved, but my experience of past 10 years or so has been that in a world full of dodgy dealers, Dyrdals actually stand out as one of the honourable exceptions, and I'd trust both Paul and Julia implicitly.

Cheers

Jack

[jamesy12345]

I bought my S70 from there, car was not immaculate but going well. The price was high but eventually talked him down (a little).

My only complaint was no paperwork for a replacement timing belt, even though removal of the cover revealed a fairly new item. Otherwise nothing to report

edit: just remembered something - number plates replaced by Drydals to show their company name along the bottom edge, matched the dealer sticker in the rear window (and does not include area code on the phone number so looks older than it is!) - little touches like that gave very good impressions

[green van man]

All parts and labour will be plus VAT in the motor trade, go to any motor factors, you will be able to negotiate discounts but you will always pay vat, go to a motor shop and the price you see is the price you pay, however it may well be a lot more than the factors price plus vat. Likewise tyres, quoted price will be plus vat.
Because they deal within the trade seperate vat makes accounting easy for most. Many small firms are wonderful tradesmen but lousy accountants in my experience.
Paul.

[capt jack]

Good point on the VAT.

I work in a small firm and we always price everything we do exclusive of VAT. Over the years you just get used to thinking in those terms. VAT is just something that you handle on behalf of HMRC - and not part of your 'real' business turnover.

In retail you do expect to pay the price you see on the ticket, but in many smaller businesses it's always assumed that everyone knows that any price quoted will be plus VAT.

I guess the OP was just a bit unlucky in coming up against what you could perhaps describe as an example of a different business culture?

I can see the point made, but I would definitely stand by Dyrdals as a prime example of a decent small local firm to do business with.

Cheers

Jack

[strider]

Originally Posted by capt jack

Good point on the VAT....In retail you do expect to pay the price you see on the ticket, but in many smaller businesses it's always assumed that everyone knows that any price quoted will be plus VAT....

So two different systems within the same business. The ticket price on the forecourt vehicles and any quote for repair work. Both when dealing with members of the public!

Maybe the motor trade is a law unto itself and stuck in the ways of trading last century. As said, I was taken by surprise. Maybe ok if you're dealing with it day in day out. I don't. I count myself lucky I only visit local garage for MOT and service. Where, guess what, the price I get quoted is the price I pay.

IMHO this tactic of hiding extra VAT from the public by the motor trade does no favours and enforces the reputation (well founded or not) that garages rip people off. More consistent quotes/prices would certainly in my mind be fairer. open and honest.

[volvorocks]

I agree with you fully reference the plus VAT argument. A lot of the public arent aware of plus VAT when asking prices - they just look at ''the price'' end of, and your comparison of the cars on the forecourt and your repair example are good ones. How is the public meant to know what is the end price complete and what is plus VAT? (on two products that attract vat - not talking about products that do not attract vat)

As I am used to dealing with VAT, I always tend to ask '' is that price all in, plus, inclusive vat''? Thats only because I am aware of the practice of some sellers selling two items that attract vat in different ways ie £120 and £100 plus VAT

Must also add that the seller receives no real extra money as a result of the VAT, they just collect it, so no real rip off, although to the customer its extra cost. On the other hand if another garage had quoted you £170 (inc vat) you would have gone to the guy who quoted you £150 - only to find when you came to pay it was actually £180. On this basis the practice is a tad unjust.

Same with some websites - you checkout after buying something and then find the price is plus VAT, even vat on the postage sometimes....and they shouldn't be selling like this on a retail site only on a trade site.

Regards

[bullstiff]

They are not hiding extra vat, they quoted you the base price, the government insist that they charge you vat, which is currently 20%
The fact that you very rarely use the body shop or parts dept is perhaps why you didn't think that vat would be added.
The trade side of any business would normally quote prices exclusive of vat whereas the retail side of a business on the whole display and quote prices inclusive of vat.
Unfortunately the body shop side of a business is usually considered trade.
The company have not intentionally tried to deceive you but have inadvertently missed off the plus vat part of the quote which had it been in writing would have shown the vat as required by law.
I would notch this one up to experience and always check for vat in future, perhaps a quick polite email to the company in question would also help them with future misunderstanding.
Regards Mark

[capt jack]

Originally Posted by strider

So two different systems within the same business. The ticket price on the forecourt vehicles and any quote for repair work. Both when dealing with members of the public!

Maybe the motor trade is a law unto itself and stuck in the ways of trading last century. As said, I was taken by surprise. Maybe ok if you're dealing with it day in day out. I don't. I count myself lucky I only visit local garage for MOT and service. Where, guess what, the price I get quoted is the price I pay.

IMHO this tactic of hiding extra VAT from the public by the motor trade does no favours and enforces the reputation (well founded or not) that garages rip people off. More consistent quotes/prices would certainly in my mind be fairer. open and honest.

No, they aren't really hiding anything. VAT on second hand cars is a minefield, especially for the trader, but as no-one can claim the VAT back on a car purchase generally no-one is really interested in how the trader worked out the VAT. It can be done either on the full value of the car or on the profit made, but it is fiendishly complex I believe. Nothing so simple as a 20% blanket rate.

But VAT is reclaimable by VAT-registered business on the work they pay for and the spares and service consumables they buy.

So when you buy a second hand car the trader will include VAT and there ain't much you or anyone can do about it. When you get work done, if you're VAT registered, you can claim the VAT back - so you need to know how much you've been charged. So a motor trader has no incentive to tell you about the VAT on a used car as none of his customers will need to think about it. But on spares and repairs a lot of his customers will need to know about the VAT - so the simplest thing is just to inform every customer!

I think that's how it works!

Jack

[volvorocks]

Originally Posted by bullstiff

They are not hiding extra vat, they quoted you the base price, the government insist that they charge you vat, which is currently 20%

Some may suggest that some companies quote the 'without' vat price in order to appear more competitive and get business as per my previous post. It happens quite a lot. Not due to them getting more money, just that on the face of it the company appears to be cheaper, hence they may get the business.Some may suggest it is 'sharp practice'..!!

Originally Posted by bullstiff

I would notch this one up to experience and always check for vat in future,

Whilst your post may be factual, it doesn't address the practice and inconsistencies of VAT charging. To many customers it is simple, although to a lot of people it can lead to confusion and misunderstandings as per the OP.

A lot of people are simply used to shopping just like they do at the supermarket where the price is all in, although as you say, pop it down to experience and it is good to check

Regards