Turbo motor ID

[DQ81]

Hi all

I recenlty got a donor car. 78 245 Express. It's crunchy. It's a parts car.

It pings under load and isn't horribly fast.

Turbo spools plenty. Looks like a TD04, watercooled.

Dizzy on the block. It has all the hallmarks of a b230fk/ft. could be a b230et. However the ECU is a single unit without an EZK box.

The ECU just says:

JETRONIC 0 288 000 346

The MAF number doesn't cross reference either.

The only hit I got on that ECU number is for a 340/360. Doesn't make sense.

The engine starts and runs very well and is smooth, no hiccups. Just the pinging under acceleration more pinging the heavier the load.

To sort this out I need to what I'm working with and I can't find a thing. All I can say is it's a 3 wire MAF. Watercooled turbo.

[Laird Scooby]

Is it a USA-spec car?

As far as i'm aware we didn't get a 245 turbo of any description as a UK model and the B230E that was fitted to 240 series models was usually the K-Jetronic, same as the later 740s. I think the B200 fitted in 240s used the same L-Jetronic system as the 360 models so would be L-Jetronic, possibly a very early LH-Jetronic.

However, being a 1978 car, the likelihood is it doesn't have a LH-Jetronic but has a flap for an air flow meter, hence the three wires as it's pretty much just a potentiometer in there. You'll probably also find it has a 5th injector for cold start and an "Auxiliary Air Valve" instead of an idle control valve.

Won't have an EZK with the dizzy on the side of the block as the advance/retard is done by old fashioned weights inside the dizzy and the vacuum capsule on the outside.

If it's pinking/pinging there are a few possibilities. First, the timing is over-advanced. Second this may have been done to cope with extra fuel being thrown in if it was a "back-street turbo conversion" and the cold start injector has been wired to operate under boost conditions.

There's a lot of stuff that doesn't add up to this being a genuine turbo from new even in the car the engine came from. There are a few pointers that suggest it's had an engine transplant and was quite likely originally a B21E with electronic injection using an L-Jetronic, same as the 360 GLE/GLT models.

Are you in Mildenhall or on base or what?

[DQ81]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Is it a USA-spec car?

As far as i'm aware we didn't get a 245 turbo of any description as a UK model and the B230E that was fitted to 240 series models was usually the K-Jetronic, same as the later 740s. I think the B200 fitted in 240s used the same L-Jetronic system as the 360 models so would be L-Jetronic, possibly a very early LH-Jetronic.

However, being a 1978 car, the likelihood is it doesn't have a LH-Jetronic but has a flap for an air flow meter, hence the three wires as it's pretty much just a potentiometer in there. You'll probably also find it has a 5th injector for cold start and an "Auxiliary Air Valve" instead of an idle control valve.

Won't have an EZK with the dizzy on the side of the block as the advance/retard is done by old fashioned weights inside the dizzy and the vacuum capsule on the outside.

If it's pinking/pinging there are a few possibilities. First, the timing is over-advanced. Second this may have been done to cope with extra fuel being thrown in if it was a "back-street turbo conversion" and the cold start injector has been wired to operate under boost conditions.

There's a lot of stuff that doesn't add up to this being a genuine turbo from new even in the car the engine came from. There are a few pointers that suggest it's had an engine transplant and was quite likely originally a B21E with electronic injection using an L-Jetronic, same as the 360 GLE/GLT models.

Are you in Mildenhall or on base or what?

Oh it's definitely a swapped engine. No doubt about that. I'm in The Netherlands. Dad lives in Mildenhal.

I'm trying to I'd the engine and management to have it run right. Although other than the pinging it's a very smooth runner.itnalso pings on lpg so I'll check timing at idle 2morrow.

It does indeed have a flap. I'll check on the 5th injector as well as the idle air valve. What do they look like?

Dizzy does look to have hall effect sensor but also has vacuum advance.

Maybe I should.just pull it and put a full LH system in.

[classicswede]

That part number is for Motronic.

The crank sensor has two sensors suggesting a B230ET

[Laird Scooby]

This is an auxiliary air valve :



Two large stubs (about 17-19mm diameter) and a 2-pole connector. It's a simple bi-metallic strip operating a shutter valve to close the passage between the two stubs as it warms up. The electrical supply is for a heater to ensure it closes.

You might want to check for vacuum leaks here there and everywhere, especially the dizzy vacuum hose and all the PCV/breather system as that can cause air leaks which will make the mixture weak resulting in pinking.

It would be a lot of work to change it for the LH system and to be fair, the L-Jetronic is a good system.

If the dizzy is Hall Effect that would be about right and will have vacuum and mechanical advance. Might pay to check the advance weights haven't stuck in their most advanced state. Long tims since i stripped and rebuilt any of those dizzys but there are a couple or three screws that hold the baseplate inside the dizzy, remove them, lift the baseplate up and the mechanical advance weights and springs are underneath. It's possible the springs are stretched or broken allowing the timing to advance more than it should, investigation and a simple cure should sort it.

The 5th injector aka cold start injector can be seen in this Volvo diagram :



Item #2 is one of the normal injectors while item #23 is the cold start injector and is usually somewhere near the throttle butterfly so it can feed all 4 cylinders.

Interesting it also pinks on LPG - that's usually about 105 octane so has much more knock resistance. Is it a single point mixer system or is it an SGi injector system?

So far the pinking definitely points towards timing and/or advance problems in the dizzy but interested in hearing more about this conversion!

[DQ81]

Originally Posted by classicswede

That part number is for Motronic.

The crank sensor has two sensors suggesting a B230ET

Which part number is motronic? ECU has a big Jetronic sticker on it.

How'd you get too it having two crank sensors?

Obviously I'd prefer it to be a b230et...

[DQ81]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

This is an auxiliary air valve :



Two large stubs (about 17-19mm diameter) and a 2-pole connector. It's a simple bi-metallic strip operating a shutter valve to close the passage between the two stubs as it warms up. The electrical supply is for a heater to ensure it closes.

You might want to check for vacuum leaks here there and everywhere, especially the dizzy vacuum hose and all the PCV/breather system as that can cause air leaks which will make the mixture weak resulting in pinking.

It would be a lot of work to change it for the LH system and to be fair, the L-Jetronic is a good system.

If the dizzy is Hall Effect that would be about right and will have vacuum and mechanical advance. Might pay to check the advance weights haven't stuck in their most advanced state. Long tims since i stripped and rebuilt any of those dizzys but there are a couple or three screws that hold the baseplate inside the dizzy, remove them, lift the baseplate up and the mechanical advance weights and springs are underneath. It's possible the springs are stretched or broken allowing the timing to advance more than it should, investigation and a simple cure should sort it.

The 5th injector aka cold start injector can be seen in this Volvo diagram :



Item #2 is one of the normal injectors while item #23 is the cold start injector and is usually somewhere near the throttle butterfly so it can feed all 4 cylinders.

Interesting it also pinks on LPG - that's usually about 105 octane so has much more knock resistance. Is it a single point mixer system or is it an SGi injector system?

So far the pinking definitely points towards timing and/or advance problems in the dizzy but interested in hearing more about this conversion!

My thoughts exactly relating to lpg thus timing.

It has exactly that air valve. So you are on the right track. Thanks!

Vac leaks: good point. Although idle is smooth. Is base timing effected by dizzy rotation or irrelevant like the old Motronic stuff.ill check the dizzy too tomorrow. Thanks.

Also ill post pics.

[Laird Scooby]

Basic timing is changed by rotating the dizzy - Motronic does it differently, has two crank sensors, one for TDC and the other as a firing/datum point where it starts the timing advance etc from and the TDC helps position it electronically.
Then the EZK on early Motronic and later the ECU sorts out the exact spark timing and tweaks the Electronic Idle Control Valve (EICV) to maintain the idle speed.

If you've got an HE dizzy mounted on the side of the block and an AAV instead of EICV then it's highly unlikely to be Motronic, especially as the ECU has a big label saying "JETRONIC" which sounds very like the L or if it was older, the D-Jetronic.

As far as i recall, the D-Jetronic still had contact breakers and condensors in the dizzy not an HE sensor. That said the D-Jetronic was fitted to things like the P1800 and 142E, 164E etc so unlikely to be on an OHC engine, whether it's a B21, B23, B230 or whatever.

Everything you've said so far suggests the engine is from a 1979-85 time span, maybe a little before or a little after but that general area.
Looking forward to the pics!

[classicswede]

Google let me down on that ECU number, it is not Motronic.

D jet it is not either


What it will almost certainly be is LH2.2, a system never sold in the UK but very common in the US market. If I am right with that Turbobricks would be teh place to find info

[Laird Scooby]

It's not LH2.2 as it has an air-flap air flow meter, not the hot-wire (the "H" in LH stands for Hot-Wire in German) Air Mass Meter, it also has the Auxiliary Air Valve and (as far as i know) the 5th injector for cold starts so it's all pointing to L-Jetronic.

As for the LH2.2 not being sold in the UK, do you mean only on the 4-pot engines? I have a B280E with LH2.2 on it and know of others as well.