Went in to fix a small leak, now it's a huge leak

[V40addict]

For background, I am not a mechanic and I had to change the timing belt after it got contaminated by oil , I thought the leak was at the camshaft seals (issue seen on here), so I told them we needed new seals installed, also to check if there was anything else leaking
https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showt...ater+pump+belt

They called me saying your camshaft seals are fine, they showed me, and they said the oil came from the oil cap seal. I told them I didn't think so , I had investigated that and yes there was quite a bit of oil around there, as it happens frequently (without ruining the belt) but it appeared to be contained to the top of the cylinder head, it wasn' t dripping down to the belt side. I forgot to remind them to keep looking for another leak, we had already discussed it, that they had to at least do a cursory check for other leaks, even if a camshaft seals was as I thought the culprit.


Well they put everything back together (changed the seals as I told them we might as well do it), they changed the accessory belt (first they had forgot to order that part, whereas other dealers usually change both belts) and now there is a huge leak. But the camshaft pulleys remain dry, so it appears to be coming from somewhere else.

They claim that was the leak that we missed, that it is likely the crankshaft seal . I don't think so or if it is at least it worsened big time. First of all, the car sat for a while in the driveway and there was no trace of oil as a crankshaft seal usually does I believe (now there is a small puddle underneath the engine). Secondly before I brought the car, I checked again for this camshaft leak, and whereas I thought I had seen some oil being sprayed when the engine was running a few months ago, there was absolutely nothing, everything was dry. It bothered me a bit because I wanted to confirm it was a camshaft seal. This is vs current situation where the belt is wet.


They say they first need to diagnose the leak, and need to take stuff apart to do that. But where else can it come from ?

My theory and I have talked about that with a neighbour who is mechanic, he said it's possible to damage the crankshaft seal when you replace the belt.

Anyway the new belt got soaked in oil, it's actually wet whereas the old one was only blackened by dried oil and was just slightly greasy . I am not even sure if it's a OK to keep this belt on now even after a wash (good luck with that, I don't think the dealer is going to spend time on that).

It's really a f*cked up situation. Aside from showing them the old belt as proof the car got in in a better condition, I don't really know what to do.

Does it make any sense to you that there would be no human error involved and no unfortunate event/circumstance during the replacement at the garage ? That it just happened on its own, a small leak at the crankshaft and not at the camshaft seals, and it's just worsened coincidentally right after they were done ?

And how liekly is it that it is something other than the crankshaft seal ?

[canis]

I don't see how it's possible to damage an oil seal simply by taking the belt off and putting another on. Someone isn't telling the truth somewhere.

Can you not look for the source yourself? Could be anything; oil goes all over the place. Leaving a piece of cardboard under the car might give a clue where it's coming from, but bear in mind it can run off other objects en route, try to trace it back.

[V40addict]

It's a neighbour who said that, I saw him fixing a car in front of his house so I chatted with him about what was happening to me at the Volvo dealership.
He said the crankshaft seal can be damaged if for example a screwdriver is used
(to remove the pulley I guess) . I thought the idea of a Volvo mechanic misusing a screwdriver far fetched (even I know that using a screwdriver to remove stuck parts is bad idea) but it's just another (professional) mechanic telling me that.

For what it's worth, they had to do the change in two steps I believe since they waited one day to get the accessory belt they forgot to order. Does that increase the chance of a screw up ?

Something is not logical anyway.

Aside from the matter of a possible screwup, the leask can only come from what now ? Crankshaft and what else possibly ?

[canis]

Originally Posted by V40addict

Aside from the matter of a possible screwup, the leask can only come from what now ? Crankshaft and what else possibly ?

There's just no way to answer this, there are any number of places. Need to see it.

[V40addict]

I talked to the manager. They refuse to take any responsibility for what happened, but he still reluctantly aknowledged the mistake regarding the oil cap seal which they thought was the culprit.

Now his main defense is first that I refused an appointment to first thoroughly investigate the leak , telling them that it was most probably a camshaft seal (they wanted to have the car "for a couple hours" beforehand to investigate) and that once they took the belt apart they could not look for another leak since they need to have the belt on and engine running for that. And what about using logic and looking at the crankshaft seal once it turned out it was not the camshaft seals? He also says the new parts and new tensioner put more stress on the crankshaft (vs an older belt that was less tight) and that it can lead to total failure of a leaky cranskshaft seal.

He even said it could be a cracked engine case, that he has seen dozens of those !! Never heard of that.

The oil appears to drip just under the crankshaft seal.

[pierremcalpine]

I'm with CANIS, it's super unlikely that the crank shaft seal was damaged. You would almost have to be trying to damage it to be successful.

Also, the crank seal won't typically fail before either of the cam seals so it's way more likely that the drip is making its convoluted way all the way down the side of the engine from one of the cams. This is a very common issue on older X40's due to PCV pressure. If you have not done your PCV, don't bother with the seals only, they will pop back out. Get the PCV done first using Philr's guide.

[V40addict]

Ok reassuring for the crankshaft seal...

But the camshaft seals were fine according to the dealership and beside
they replaced them after I insisted upon it .

So it can't be the camshaft seal

And the oil cap seal was replaced too.


Now they say the car no longer starts.

I cant believe this, car had no running problem whatsoever, ran like a dream

[V40addict]

The car no longer starts, it's like the battery has almost no juice left (dashboard and lights still work), engine doesn't crank.

They say they diagnosed the car with the computer and saw there was no connection between the key and the immobilizer .

It makes no sense that an issue developed with the immobilizer over one week and when the car was not in use just sitting on their parking lot. I told them it looks just like when the battery needs recharging (and it was low ), they claim they already tried that but "will try again" (makes no sense either they checked for the battery or not !).

This dealership is a nightmare, everything they touch fails shortly thereafter.
(btw I am no longer in brighton so I am not talking about a dealer in that area)


Regarding PCV pressure, I remember checking for positive pressure when buying the car, engine sucked in oil cap (stuck in place ), so no positive pressure .

[V40addict]

It's not the battery. The car does not start but it doesn't do what the manual says it does when there is an immobilzer issue (the dashboard light turns on with the other lights then goes off, same with the LED on the passenger side, actually I think that one goes off when I turn the key).


Something is really odd I think. We had agreed that they would call me in case a new issue would come up. But they didn't , it's when I called on Friday to see how it was coming along and whether they could still diagnose/fix the car on Monday as promised, that they told me that now the car no longer starts, and that they spent "a crazy amount of time" diagnosing it on the parking lot with connection issues for their computer (wifi or whatever). At the same time, they had said there was no way they could work on the car before next week Monday at the earliest.

If they believed it was an immobilizer issue they had every reason to call me, they knew I had a spare key to first test whether it was the key at fault or not !


I am looking up this immobilizer issue, doesn't seem frequent. Apparently it may happen sometimes after battery goes flat, which occured several times on this car and other Volvos we've had. I 've never seen this issue before.

What's your take on this ? I am starting to wonder whether they didn't tamper with the immobilizer since they sensed a dispute coming and they knew I had an extra set of key, that the car being on their parking lot I could just take off without paying. It's such a coincidence that it just happened the one week it stayed there, the car always started without problems before (if the battery was not flat, which happened 2 times).

[lynns hubby]

You may be getting a little paranoid (understandably) about hem keeping the car in case of dispute.
Sounds to me (and no doubt others on here) that this garage doers not have a clue. They took you for someone with no knowledge and waffled on about why it had oil leaks here and there in the hope you would accept it.
I know its the principle of the matter in all of this but it looks like they are playing the game of "the car aint worth much so hopefully you will tell them to keep it"
I appreciate that the car is worth it to you and that's why you are after sorting the issue out.
I am no expert but would think you have "some rights" in all of this.
Lets just hope you get it sorted.