Volvo Community Forum. The Forums of the Volvo Owners Club

Forum Rules Volvo Owners Club About VOC Volvo Gallery Links Volvo History Volvo Press
Go Back   Volvo Owners Club Forum > "Technical Topics" > 850 / S70 & V70 '96-'99 / C70 '97-'05 General
Register Members CarsBlogs Help Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

850 / S70 & V70 '96-'99 / C70 '97-'05 General Forum for the 850 / S70 & V70 '96-'99/ C70 '97-'05 models

Information
  • VOC Members: There is no login facility using your VOC membership number or the details from page 3 of the club magazine. You need to register in the normal way
  • AOL Customers: Make sure you check the 'Remember me' check box otherwise the AOL system may log you out during the session. This is a known issue with AOL.
  • AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net users. Forum owners such as us are finding that AOL, Yahoo and Plus.net are blocking a lot of email generated from forums. This may mean your registration activation and other emails will not get to you, or they may appear in your spam mailbox

Thread Informations

Why You fit an Aux Trans Cooler to an 850 / V70 / S70 / C70

Views : 3728

Replies : 26

Users Viewing This Thread :  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Aug 21st, 2015, 13:18   #1
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default Why You fit an Aux Trans Cooler to an 850 / V70 / S70 / C70

Why Should You fit an Aux Auto Transmission Cooler to a 1993-2005 850 / V70 / S70 / C70 P1 P2 Volvo?

This post is for those that really want to understand what happens in your auto-transmission, I can't promise an easy read or even a short one. If you drive you car as a 'keeper', and expect to have it in 5-10 years and/or do galactic miles - this is for you. Conversely if your car is in warranty, or you choose to follow the official Volvo mantra, with "Ah but Volvo say..." and/or you mince about doing girly miles, this little lot won't apply. So... and I make emphasis on them, with those caveats out of the way...

How the Volvo got its Trans Cooler.

O my Best Beloved, we shall begin...


Almost the de facto 'Achilles Heel' of a car otherwise capable of crazy miles (My last P80 was still going at 340,000 miles) is your Aisin Warner Auto Transmission. Yes I know, Saabs and of course Toyota amongst many others use the same Aisin Warner box and recommend an ATF flush at 60,000. If the above caveats don't apply to you, neglect ATF flushing much after 90,000 miles at your peril. I'd suggest doing it far earlier, particularly with 2001/2002 and early 2003 cars. Leave it and whilst somebody will be along to regale us with tales of doing vast mileages on the original ATF, there won't be many of you. Incideantlly, the same bloke will tell you he gets 40-45mpg on a run. All cars will have its inbuilt ticket to the crusher. With ours, the PCV is something that also springs to mind, but here we'll stick with one cause, the Aisin Warner auto-transmission.


Why will the Toyota made Aisin Warner transmission kill your car? Because you, are not a Volvo owner. Bear with me now… Volvo controversially state the ATF is a 'Sealed For Life' Transmission. It is. By the time the vehicle gets to mileages where this might be in question most cars are not owned by a Volvo customer, thus are out of warranty, so from Volvo's position the point stands. It is sealed for its lifetime. Volvo's dictum gives the manufacturer distance and is quite understandable. I'm reminded of the classic 'Minder' episode where Arthur Daley is sells pot-plants with a life-time guarantee.

Even at the outer reaches of typical warranty mileages, the ATF might be past its best but not such that it'll kill the box. Because they're making little money out of those with a 10-15 year old car, this works. A Volvo customer buys new every year, so from 'their' standpoint - and this may shock, the likes of most on this forum don't actaully own Volvos. In that sense I certainly don't. In the caring-sharing way this forum is famed [counsellors are available], this thought could be hurtful, wounding to the ego. Sniff. Sob.

However, Twooly, twooly, they don't weally wuv us.

They never wuvved us. Never shall. Blub.
After a tactful period, unless they can really dangle us for crazy parts prices, better these cars hit the crusher. Mindless bleating about and I quote 'stealers' and their 'prices' make me chuckle. Students of human-nature they are not…. Morons, morons, all morons - anyway I digress…

Other than to say the 5 speed transmissions require a unique AWS 3309 Toyota IV ATF and to remind you that later cars have the flow reversed with smaller diameter hosing, I am not going to cover the 'Gibbon's method' flush. Search for it, you'll see it's been done to death. Yet ask any transmission shop, the killer to all auto boxes is heat burning the fluid. It is not unusual to see many vehicles sold today with barely adequate transmission cooling. Understandable. Over a production-run of 100s of thousands, where the smallest part-cost can be shaved this snowballs. See this with every one of the thousands of parts in much the same way., and all is revealed. Over the whole car that is a helluva lot of money.

Why a flush on its own only 'sort of ' works.
Having done your full flush and got fashionable shades of light pink fluid running round your transmission, 40,000 miles later in my experience it'll be looking dark brown or black. This is verified by others too:

http://volvospeed.com/volvo_repairs_...flush_diy.html

Not an issue for Volvo in typical warranty mileages, and the box will run with black burnt fluid, from new for a fair few miles however the cause is transmission fluid running too hot. And get this, Volvo tacitly admit this. (see Diagram). It would not surprise me if from my own experince, this was actual dialled in at design stage. I am a product-designer, my clients will usually ask me to put something in for obsolescence. Sometimes I do this unintentionally - remember for any manufacturer provided it does not reveal itself straight away, this is top-notch design. Yes, really.

The problem:
Be it the extremes of sweltering Bank-holiday traffic or a snowbound February, ideally your ATF should be warmed-up to temperature - 85-90 degrees and remain there. The standard auto-transmission cooler is attached to the coolant radiator to aid this. Only on occasions, your car does not do this, fluid temperature will often sit right at the edge of the ATF temperature limits. Albeit so that you will not notice, your box gradually burns its fluid.

Much over 100 degrees wjhilst permissible, is bad. On hot summer days, in London traffic, or towing, or with a heavy foot, I've seen clonking and tranmission-flaring after 30-40 mins. If the fluid is OKish, it will be so small you will not notice it, [here we are talking fractions of a second] but it will be there. Changes are mildly slower as the fluid heats. Your box has electronic temperature compensation however the compensation is for decent fluid. London traffic produces major flaring if you have old fluid on a hot day. If you see this effect in less than 30-40 mins, woe betide… you had better flush.
Exceptions are towing, extensive city-traffic use, and/or a heavy foot, yet the 'fix it now and worry about it later approach' is to do a flush. Your box may well have got to today without a flush, however now an older transmission, better it gets done every 30-40,000 miles. There are exceptions, however for most of you, this will be all you need to know. The same would apply to all the fluids in your car.

I won't cover the gibbons flush, other than say: "sump dumps" on this transmission are best done by driving the car up only one ramp lifting the LEFT wheel. It'll be only a little tight and you'll get 4 litres, (if your speak American I mean quarts 'cos litres adn quart are near as not the same) out instead of 3.5. The 24mm hex headed drain plug is at the lowest point of the transmission and should properly easy to spot. Careful to get thsi right, the wrong one is often mistaken. It points toward the right wheel, not straight down. The oil drain plug is 17mm, so the transmission drain, at 24mm, is noticeably bigger.

I am a high-mileage user and at 40,000 miles a year I flush my box yearly.

http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic...ooler-install/

WORK IN PROGRESS (I will complete in the next week or so)

I will do some more, I''l cover, less pricey than the Volvo versions of a cooler; Derale Setrab thermostat installs; getting rid of the silly Volvo hose fittings with 3/8" NPT barb fittings; Magnefine inline filters etc etc, so unless you can truly add to this, or don't bin your car at 200,000ish miles 'leave as'
Thanks.

Sleep tight.
Attached Images
File Type: png VolvoTransmissionDipstick 26-02-15 01.png (196.7 KB, 64 views)
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Aug 21st, 2015 at 14:39.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to CNGBiFuel For This Useful Post:
Old Oct 3rd, 2015, 11:51   #2
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

I'm back to do some more work on this post - Here are pics of the stat install. I won't bother showing you my coolaer because that shoudl eb self-explanatory, there are numerous posts on this (and I ddin't take any pics of it anyway).

First pic shows the stock internal cooler all of us with an auto have. Found buried in the engine coolant radiator, here it is exposed from when my old coolant radiator had to come out.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TransCoolerInRad.jpg (137.9 KB, 131 views)
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Oct 3rd, 2015 at 14:09.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3rd, 2015, 11:53   #3
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

Here is the transmission thermostat. Haviing got to my breakers yard for extra hoses, I positioned this under the battery tray. See pics.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TranmissionThermStat19-06-15 01.jpg (96.7 KB, 144 views)
File Type: jpg TranmissionThermStat19-06-15 02.jpg (67.2 KB, 130 views)
File Type: jpg TranmissionThermStat19-06-15 03.jpg (68.7 KB, 120 views)
File Type: jpg TranmissionThermStat19-06-15 04.jpg (66.1 KB, 109 views)
File Type: jpg TranmissionThermStat19-06-15 06.jpg (67.7 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg TranmissionThermStat19-06-15 05.jpg (81.1 KB, 104 views)
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Oct 3rd, 2015 at 12:02.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3rd, 2015, 12:04   #4
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

More pics. Fitted under the battery tray I cobbled up hoses from the heap I salvaged at my breakers yard. A Magnefine is easy to put in using two stock hoses cut to use the corresponding ends. 3/8 Magnafine fits on my 1999 V70. Ealry cars use 1/2".
I used brass elbows but in hindsight steel would ahve been better for the plumbing. I cracked 1 x brass elbow with even mild spannering to get it to seal. I used thread sealant, rather thatn PTFE tape.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Stat.jpg (130.3 KB, 61 views)
File Type: png Barb HoseTail.png (106.9 KB, 51 views)
File Type: jpg •Magnefine14-06-15 06.jpg (92.2 KB, 54 views)
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Oct 3rd, 2015 at 12:15.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3rd, 2015, 12:26   #5
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

More pics...

Gettign the fluid level correct on these Boxes is a right PITA. Even finding the dipstick is a pain. Getting it in and out not much easier. I found the best way for fluid level is, using an IR thermometer, to point it at the pipe where it leaves the trans sump after you have doen 15-20 mins of driving to get ATF to temperature 80 degs C. Takes several goes and has to be right. Too little and you'll heat the box, or too much and you'll foam the ATF and heat the box. Doing it at 40 degs C is not accurate enough... er, you'll heat the box.

NOTE: Read teh instruction on the dipstick diagram above for correct procedure.


I pcked my coler up used from a high sepc Turbo C70 ( I believe all have these stock) but any cooler cobbled in would do.
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Oct 3rd, 2015 at 13:04.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3rd, 2015, 12:29   #6
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

The cheapest ATF that is JWS 3309 compliant I can find is Mannol ATF JWS 3309. But thsi is dino grade. The cheapest ATF that is fully synth here in the UK is CARLUBE ATF-U


Or:

Granville ATF MV
CARLUBE ATF-U
Toyota JWS3309
Toyota T-IV

On the subject of which fluid to use revels imbecilic posts in the multitude on the subject. [Morons, all morons... ] This is a Toyota box so anyhting meeting Toyota JWS3309 or Toyota T-IV (both are the same thing) is what you want. Standard ATF is no good. I run CARLUBE ATF-U and previously had Granville ATF MV in there. Both fully syth. You do NOT need Volvo ATF. If you must go to a main-dealer for ATF, go to a Toyota one.

WARNING: Don't get too ham-fisted with the engine-coolant rad as you nail the trans cooler to it. Mine gave in with the stress. It is likely mine was on the way out anyway, but my tampering definitely set it on the way.
More pics
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 8618347.jpg (59.8 KB, 65 views)
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Oct 3rd, 2015 at 12:51.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3rd, 2015, 12:43   #7
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

Since fittign this cooler, my ATF has remained pink. Whereas by 15,000 miles it would go brown, this no longer happens.

I am sorry to say there is a helluva lot of utter, utter hogwash written on Volvo transmissions, re the ATF changes, which ATF and the need (or not) for a cooler. It never ceases. I am sorry, if you subsribe to the Volvo mantra you will disagree with all I've written. But then, I suspect you've not understood it.

And the guy that says he's done 250,000 on the same ATF will be along in a mo' (because it is possible) but when i dropped the sumps to get my hoses from the scrappers for this project, all had black ATF.

Y'onour... I rest my case.
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Oct 3rd, 2015 at 13:24.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3rd, 2015, 14:12   #8
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

I put hte Magnefine after the cooler because I had no idea of the providence of my used cooler. For all I knew it was full of crud from a prior car's failed box or had lumps of solder/braze in it, left from manufacture.

This thread is useful on the subject, and proves you don't need a fancy Volvo item, only watch his choice of fluid?!

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...=223937&page=4

The four speed boxes are less picky and are fine with cheaper ATF.
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]

Last edited by CNGBiFuel; Oct 3rd, 2015 at 16:10.
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 3rd, 2015, 19:45   #9
CNGBiFuel
Classic P80 1999 BiFuel
 

Last Online: Yesterday 04:28
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: 48mph Middle Lane M4
Default

http://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showth...=223937&page=4

This post and many others, if you look up on the subject, proves that you can use any small cooler you can cobble together to fit into the airflow. It'll need a bit of angle iron or Dexion type fitment, but it's not beyond most.
__________________
Bifuel V70 Classic 1999 [The Old Grumpy in the Corner, "When I was a lad... blah, bl**dy blah."]
CNGBiFuel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 14th, 2015, 17:51   #10
blueacid
Senior Member
 

Last Online: Dec 19th, 2018 19:27
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Manchester
Default

Thanks for this - is there any downside to fitting the cooler? e.g. on an engine with a thermostat stuck open, the engine can't reach operating temperature & thus you get poor fuel economy as it tries to warm up.

Would the gearbox suffer in any similar way if it never reaches the ~85c operating temperature?

Cheers,
Blueacid
blueacid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 00:27.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.