Amazon: - Changing Cam: do I take the oil pump out ?

1966 122s · Jan 6th, 2009, 22:48

Apologies for another basic question, but the Autobooks manula doen't seem to cover this:
I am about to pull my cam out. I figure I need to remove the distributor. But what do I do about the oil pump. I would rather avoid takiing the sump off !

Thanks,
Graham

Peter Keen · Jan 8th, 2009, 22:31

You don`t take out the oil pump, or remove the sump. Do remember to mark the position of the rotor arm relative to the timing marks.As replacing the distributor in the correct position is much easier.

Derek UK · Jan 9th, 2009, 08:57

No, but you do need to remove the distributor drive gear. The oil pump is driven by it's lower shaft. Pics in Haynes. As said, mark up the dizzy position and make sure the drive gear is refitted exactly as it came out, so as to ensure the correct timing.

1966 122s · Jan 10th, 2009, 23:22

Thanks Peter and Derek

I've got the head off and will be fitting a new cam:

How can I tell:
what head I have ?
whether it has been skinned ?
What gasket to use ?
Should I cange the valve guide oil seals ?

I don't have the car's history but it is a 1966 122s. It has twin down-pipes and twin SUs and I'm almost convinced it's had a top end engine rebuild at some point. The head gasket that was on there looks very very thin to my amateur eye. definately less than 1mm. and hence I am suspecting that this may be a thin gasket and / or the head may already be skimmed. My attempt to measure the head gives a height of 85mm.... but I'm using a shameful tape measure and eye method.

Then there was the puff of smoke I had on fast pull off. Compression measured at 160, 160, 155, 160.
I gather the valve guides go.... I don't want to spend a fortune.... Is it worth changing the valve guide oil seals or should I just put the head back on and hope it doesn't develop further??

Can I re-use the old head gasket ( perfectly in place thin gasket.... Yes I am new to this !!) I only ask as this would mean than I don't have to worry about gasket thickness. If the answer is no then What head gasket should I buy

Graham

Derek UK · Jan 11th, 2009, 01:22

B18B head is 87mm which gives a cr of 9.5:1. The 123GT has a cr of 10:1 so the head will be even thinner. Yours might have had a skim.
Use a good quality standard head gasket from a top end/decoke kit. You can't reuse the old one.
Valve seals will be included. These just fit on the top of the valves as you will have seen.
Your compression is good and even. I expect you will want to pull and inspect the valves but with those figures they are probably OK. If it has been skimmed it might not have done a lot of miles since. A little puff of smoke isn't unusual as this type of oil seal doesn't work the same as the B20 type which is fitted to the valve guide.
Take care when fitting your new cam. Don't scatch the cam bearings with the cam lobes.

1966 122s · Jan 11th, 2009, 19:50

I measured the head again. Again it seems more like 85 than 87mm. Hence I will work on the basis that it has been skimmed.

1
I have my old cam out. One of the numbers has a K prefix and a C suffix. "K - 235 - C"

Does this mean it was a K cam ?

I only ask as I liked the performance of the car before I broke the end off the old cam. I now find it had twin down-pipes and a skimmed head.... If it had a K cam then I may buy a K rather than the D that I was planning based on previous excellent advice. If it was a K cam then I would also then guess that the carbs had been needled to K as the previous owner seems to have been thorough. Only comment I would have had on car on this old cam was that rick-over was a bit lumpy....which matches description of K cams in 1800s.
In case anyone knows the history of the car....it came from Birmingham area 3 years ago and is cream with an unusual cream leather interior. Can't be many changed to cream leather and red piping ? (Good leather copy of volvo original).

2
My steel timing gear kit came with a steel replacement for the bronze plate which holds the cam in. Should I use the steel or buy bronze ?

Derek UK · Jan 12th, 2009, 00:13

There's not much difference between the K and the D. Slightly less duration and overlap on the K. I don't know what your cam is, but if it's aftermarket and the 235 indicates duraton it would be hairier than the D and about half way to the R. Pretty hot in other words.
Have a look here http://1800philes.com/ianr/_superlist_grinds.html
Think I remember seeing your car on eBay. The leather interior sounds familiar. Don't know if it was as long ago as 3 years though, but time flies!

1966 122s · Jan 12th, 2009, 11:57

Car was on ebay in 2006 and again in 2007 so probably the one you saw. Will look at web site you linked. Will look for other numbers on the old cam in case I can source the same.

Graham

Jan 6th, 2009, 22:48	#1
1966 122s Member Last Online: Apr 21st, 2013 20:05 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ireland	Changing Cam: do I take the oil pump out ? Apologies for another basic question, but the Autobooks manula doen't seem to cover this: I am about to pull my cam out. I figure I need to remove the distributor. But what do I do about the oil pump. I would rather avoid takiing the sump off ! Thanks, Graham

Jan 8th, 2009, 22:31	#2
Peter Keen Junior Member Last Online: Feb 13th, 2014 16:43 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: CARLISLE	Oil pump You don`t take out the oil pump, or remove the sump. Do remember to mark the position of the rotor arm relative to the timing marks.As replacing the distributor in the correct position is much easier.

Jan 10th, 2009, 23:22	#4
1966 122s Member Last Online: Apr 21st, 2013 20:05 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ireland	Messing with my head ! Thanks Peter and Derek I've got the head off and will be fitting a new cam: How can I tell: what head I have ? whether it has been skinned ? What gasket to use ? Should I cange the valve guide oil seals ? I don't have the car's history but it is a 1966 122s. It has twin down-pipes and twin SUs and I'm almost convinced it's had a top end engine rebuild at some point. The head gasket that was on there looks very very thin to my amateur eye. definately less than 1mm. and hence I am suspecting that this may be a thin gasket and / or the head may already be skimmed. My attempt to measure the head gives a height of 85mm.... but I'm using a shameful tape measure and eye method. Then there was the puff of smoke I had on fast pull off. Compression measured at 160, 160, 155, 160. I gather the valve guides go.... I don't want to spend a fortune.... Is it worth changing the valve guide oil seals or should I just put the head back on and hope it doesn't develop further?? Can I re-use the old head gasket ( perfectly in place thin gasket.... Yes I am new to this !!) I only ask as this would mean than I don't have to worry about gasket thickness. If the answer is no then What head gasket should I buy Graham Last edited by 1966 122s; Jan 10th, 2009 at 23:50.

Jan 11th, 2009, 19:50	#6
1966 122s Member Last Online: Apr 21st, 2013 20:05 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ireland	Was this a K cam ? I measured the head again. Again it seems more like 85 than 87mm. Hence I will work on the basis that it has been skimmed. 1 I have my old cam out. One of the numbers has a K prefix and a C suffix. "K - 235 - C" Does this mean it was a K cam ? I only ask as I liked the performance of the car before I broke the end off the old cam. I now find it had twin down-pipes and a skimmed head.... If it had a K cam then I may buy a K rather than the D that I was planning based on previous excellent advice. If it was a K cam then I would also then guess that the carbs had been needled to K as the previous owner seems to have been thorough. Only comment I would have had on car on this old cam was that rick-over was a bit lumpy....which matches description of K cams in 1800s. In case anyone knows the history of the car....it came from Birmingham area 3 years ago and is cream with an unusual cream leather interior. Can't be many changed to cream leather and red piping ? (Good leather copy of volvo original). 2 My steel timing gear kit came with a steel replacement for the bronze plate which holds the cam in. Should I use the steel or buy bronze ?

Jan 12th, 2009, 11:57	#8
1966 122s Member Last Online: Apr 21st, 2013 20:05 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Ireland	Car was on ebay in 2006 and again in 2007 so probably the one you saw. Will look at web site you linked. Will look for other numbers on the old cam in case I can source the same. Graham Last edited by 1966 122s; Jan 12th, 2009 at 12:09.

Jan 9th, 2009, 08:57	#3
Derek UK VOC Member Last Online: Today 20:55 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chatham	No, but you do need to remove the distributor drive gear. The oil pump is driven by it's lower shaft. Pics in Haynes. As said, mark up the dizzy position and make sure the drive gear is refitted exactly as it came out, so as to ensure the correct timing.

Jan 11th, 2009, 01:22	#5
Derek UK VOC Member Last Online: Today 20:55 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chatham	B18B head is 87mm which gives a cr of 9.5:1. The 123GT has a cr of 10:1 so the head will be even thinner. Yours might have had a skim. Use a good quality standard head gasket from a top end/decoke kit. You can't reuse the old one. Valve seals will be included. These just fit on the top of the valves as you will have seen. Your compression is good and even. I expect you will want to pull and inspect the valves but with those figures they are probably OK. If it has been skimmed it might not have done a lot of miles since. A little puff of smoke isn't unusual as this type of oil seal doesn't work the same as the B20 type which is fitted to the valve guide. Take care when fitting your new cam. Don't scatch the cam bearings with the cam lobes.

Jan 12th, 2009, 00:13	#7
Derek UK VOC Member Last Online: Today 20:55 Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Chatham	There's not much difference between the K and the D. Slightly less duration and overlap on the K. I don't know what your cam is, but if it's aftermarket and the 235 indicates duraton it would be hairier than the D and about half way to the R. Pretty hot in other words. Have a look here http://1800philes.com/ianr/_superlist_grinds.html Think I remember seeing your car on eBay. The leather interior sounds familiar. Don't know if it was as long ago as 3 years though, but time flies!

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