Engine: T5: Relocate Engine?

[Blue 8]

Is there a reason behind this Steve? are you thinking about your sprints .

[Enigma666]

Main issue.....clutch, gearbox linkages etc.....and for the performance increase you will see from the reverse IC setup you would be better off getting a large bore throttle body mod done instead...or look into supercharging the system for srpints, then letting the turbo take over at higher rpm

[dooby]

I've just had a quick think about this, and no I don't think there's anything making this impossible but it would be a big job and no mistake :-)

I'm assuming the car is roughly symmetrical, so the gearbox would fit under the wing support beam on the driver's side just like it does on the passenger side.

After that, there'll be some mods to the subframe and mounts to support it rotated 180 degrees and maybe push it back too.

There'd be the issue of routing clutch hydraulic as pointed out, and many engine sensors would need the loom wiring re-routing.

The air flow would be pretty interesting - would need some custom piping making up to get from filter to turbo. Turbo to intercooler would be nice and short, but back from intercooler to throttle body (now behind engine against bulkhead and closed in by brake reservoir and master cylinder) would be tight.

Then once the combustion's done you've got to get the downpipe coming off the turbo exhaust housing and away. Don't think you could run it under the engine, as there's little room anyway - maybe somewhere across to the right, round where the gearbox would have been? Would need good heat shielding, as it might run past the aux and timing belts then...

Would be pretty crazy, but nothing's impossible. You've seen powernut's T5 engine in the back of the Beetle, right? That's "the other way round" if you wanted some inspiration.

Cheers, Pete

[st5ve]

Originally Posted by dooby

I've just had a quick think about this, and no I don't think there's anything making this impossible but it would be a big job and no mistake :-)

I'm assuming the car is roughly symmetrical, so the gearbox would fit under the wing support beam on the driver's side just like it does on the passenger side.

After that, there'll be some mods to the subframe and mounts to support it rotated 180 degrees and maybe push it back too.

There'd be the issue of routing clutch hydraulic as pointed out, and many engine sensors would need the loom wiring re-routing.

The air flow would be pretty interesting - would need some custom piping making up to get from filter to turbo. Turbo to intercooler would be nice and short, but back from intercooler to throttle body (now behind engine against bulkhead and closed in by brake reservoir and master cylinder) would be tight.

Then once the combustion's done you've got to get the downpipe coming off the turbo exhaust housing and away. Don't think you could run it under the engine, as there's little room anyway - maybe somewhere across to the right, round where the gearbox would have been? Would need good heat shielding, as it might run past the aux and timing belts then...

Would be pretty crazy, but nothing's impossible. You've seen powernut's T5 engine in the back of the Beetle, right? That's "the other way round" if you wanted some inspiration.

Cheers, Pete

Hi Pete,
I think some of the guys think it would be done to get more power but I am looking at the overall balance of the car and making it lighter thus making it better handling. Power is another matter.

Heat shielding is going to be an issue as I would imagine their is going to be a fair amount of heat soak into the rad and ic. Wiring loom well if I go ahead with this project I would use a stand alone ecu and strip out all the unwanted wiring. Loads of bits are going to have to be custom made the whole slam pannel will probably have to come out (like pedro fandango's), not sure about fibre glass wings and bonnet though!
You are bang on about the d/p no way would it go under the engine and reroute would be a nightmare, loads of things to get in the way taking it over the engine will not be an option as well cause the engine would be to close to the bulk head.

[st5ve]

Originally Posted by Enigma666

Main issue.....clutch, gearbox linkages etc.....and for the performance increase you will see from the reverse IC setup you would be better off getting a large bore throttle body mod done instead...or look into supercharging the system for srpints, then letting the turbo take over at higher rpm

On my main project I will be getting the throttle body ported, reverse ic and the pipe from maf sensor to turbo modified. I have already got a full feritta exhaust system, S60 R manifold, carbon charger intake system, modified slam pannel etc. So throttle response will be spot on.

I am just looking at this as a potential project dont even have a suitable car yet.

[mario850]

i would just like to point one thing out and think about it before you call me stupid but if you rotate the engine 180 deg then the gear box will be the wrong way around and in turn you will have 1 forward 5 reverse plus with the moving the engine back and down like the btcc racer the bulk head its self has to be moved back which means the controls need moving back ie pedals and steering wheel and dash and in turn the drivers seat which means loosing rear leg room not a problem for a singal seat racer but not as a practical car unless your friends have no legs lol it can all be done in my opinion apart from the 180 flip but you can get around the hot air problem by fitting a dual core ic or a bigger one unless you can find a gear box that will bolt on that is designed to work the oppisite way to the standard one

[dooby]

Lol, good spot on the gear directions Mario :-)

Presumably something could be done somehow - could you run the engine backwards? Or, if you opened up the gearbox maybe it's possible to add or remove a cog to change the rotational direction of the diff? No idea if either of those suggestions are practical, just throwing them out there.

Cheers, Pete

[mrfixer]

why not fit the whole assembly in the rear of the car as much room to do anything you wish and rear wheel drive shouldnt be too hard if using a four wheel drive rear end.

[mario850]

Originally Posted by mrfixer

why not fit the whole assembly in the rear of the car as much room to do anything you wish and rear wheel drive shouldnt be too hard if using a four wheel drive rear end.

if it was me and i was going to go to the hassle of a rear drive 850 i would go small block chevy V8 upfront and lsd to put it to the wheels and go everywhere in a cloud of my own smoke sideways lol

[st5ve]

Originally Posted by mario850

i would just like to point one thing out and think about it before you call me stupid but if you rotate the engine 180 deg then the gear box will be the wrong way around and in turn you will have 1 forward 5 reverse plus with the moving the engine back and down like the btcc racer the bulk head its self has to be moved back which means the controls need moving back ie pedals and steering wheel and dash and in turn the drivers seat which means loosing rear leg room not a problem for a singal seat racer but not as a practical car unless your friends have no legs lol it can all be done in my opinion apart from the 180 flip but you can get around the hot air problem by fitting a dual core ic or a bigger one unless you can find a gear box that will bolt on that is designed to work the oppisite way to the standard one

Yep I was on my way to training tonight and thought the exact same, remembered a scrapheap challenge where a team building some sort of vehicle had the same problem. I think it was a rear wheel drive (did they turn the rear axle upside down to get round that particular problem?)

I can see that trying to do this is going to cost mega bugs and the only way to do it is if you have the facilities and skill to do the job yourself with mates help!