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Rack and Pinion Steering in an Amazon?

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Old Oct 19th, 2006, 16:19   #1
wellshj
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Default Rack and Pinion Steering in an Amazon?

Spotted in the piece on the Swiss Aston Martin engined P1800 in Octane this month that they fitted a TR4 steering rack to the car. Has anyone else got any further experience of trying to fit rack and pinion to an Amazon or thoughts to add? Might make for even nicer steering feel and parts to do the conversion are quite reasonable.

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Old Oct 19th, 2006, 17:56   #2
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Interesting idea. Won't the rack have to be quite far forward, in which case its position & also the angle / length of the steering arms (custom ones will probably be required) will be critical for it to be a worthwhile conversion. If Amazon's have Ackermann steering geometry, then the postion of the rack etc can be calculated rather than being a case of trial & error.
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Old Oct 19th, 2006, 18:13   #3
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Thanks Paul, unfortunately the article didn't include photos of the rack in situ so its difficult to know what they had to modify or how they chose geometry without getting some bits and making some measurements...

Ackerman was new to me, if any of you would like to know about it there is a clear, concise description on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ackerma...ering_geometry
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Old Oct 19th, 2006, 22:47   #4
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There are basically two places the rack can go - behind the engine or in front of it. If behind (Morris-Minor-stylee), that will involve extensive bulkhead / inner wing mods, so that can be ruled out unless the front end is being spaceframed.

So that just leaves in front of the engine. It's been a while since I've had to look under the front end of my heap, but isn't there a transverse steering link (with steering box drop link & idler at each end) around there? If a rack is being fitted, that is presumably redundant so the rack can go there.

The issue is the steering arms - not just the angle but also clearance thoughout the steering lock, especially as long arms may be required with correspondingly greater arc of movement. I'll have a look under my car tomorrow & let you know my thoughts
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Old Oct 20th, 2006, 04:26   #5
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If a TR4 rack is used I think it would have to go infront of the axle, as if it went behind the steering would work in reverse!
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Old Oct 20th, 2006, 11:23   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LankyTim View Post
If a TR4 rack is used I think it would have to go infront of the axle, as if it went behind the steering would work in reverse!
Indeed, unless a LHD rack is used. E.g. RHD Spridgets use an upside down LHD Moggy Minor steering rack mounted in front of (instead of behind) the axle line

BTW, are the front chassis structure & suspension mounts etc on P1800s & Amazons basically the same? I.e. can whatever was done to the 1800 be swapped straight over to an Amazon?

It might also be worth asking over on http://retrorides.proboards86.com/ They are very much in favour of uprating old cars & there are also quite a few technical / car engineering gurus who post regularly on there & who would know far more about how to carry out such a conversion
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Old Oct 20th, 2006, 14:29   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 222s View Post
So that just leaves in front of the engine. It's been a while since I've had to look under the front end of my heap, but isn't there a transverse steering link (with steering box drop link & idler at each end) around there? If a rack is being fitted, that is presumably redundant so the rack can go there.
There is indeed such a transverse link and it certainly seems logical to remove it and fit a steering rack in its place. However it would affect the steering geometry, as the transverse link is a rigid rod hung directly between the two idler/droplink arms and not otherwise constrained, whereas the rack is a rod that can only move transversely relative to the body and connected to the idler/droplink by two hinged bits on the end. The straight-line distance between the moving ends of the idler/droplink would vary with the position of the steering, being shorter on full lock than in the straight-ahead position. This effect could be minimised by using as short a rack as possible, but I'd still want to draw it all out and work out how much of an effect it is before doing the job.
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Old Oct 20th, 2006, 22:06   #8
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Most steering and suspension parts are sg=hared with both P1800 and amazon.

Personlay I would not bother fitting a rack as in good nick the steering box gives very poitive steering.

Steering boxes are still used in new cars today!
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Old Nov 11th, 2017, 12:50   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wellshj View Post
Spotted in the piece on the Swiss Aston Martin engined P1800 in Octane this month that they fitted a TR4 steering rack to the car. Has anyone else got any further experience of trying to fit rack and pinion to an Amazon or thoughts to add? Might make for even nicer steering feel and parts to do the conversion are quite reasonable.

Harvey
Maybe not the answer you were looking for, but have you tried adjusting the front suspension? I have found that with the right toe-out and camber settings there is a good deal of positive feel through the steering. Tyres also make a difference. Not tried a TR4 rack to know how that would differ though, but certainly happy with my setup.
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Old Nov 11th, 2017, 14:45   #10
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Cool rack & pinion

As Tom The Biker said the rack has to be very short, Way back in my not so ill spent youth,I worked at Lotus for a spell,( any body in the middx/herts/essex borders and interested in bikes/cars did so) I worked on the drive line bench moding and putting bits together for Elites(prettiest car you ever saw) They used herald racks,the racks being cut and shut,can't remember anything about the geometry unfortunately.

The GP team were based on site and now and again the door would open and one of the team cars "would bomb off" down Delamare rd. the local boys in blue must have heard,they were only a mile away, but copped a deaf un' This quite often occured when "THE MAN" from Webber came over from Italy to breath on the carbs, was like black magic to us lads!!!

Regards,Keith(misty eyed with nostalgia)
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