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PV, 120 (Amazon), 1800 General Forum for the Volvo PV, 120 and 1800 cars

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New (to me) 1963 Volvo 122

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Old May 13th, 2022, 06:05   #841
Othen
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It was to make you think. It's much cheaper to live with the speedo error and get so your brain tells you whether you are speeding or not. At this point I don't think you really know what the error is under road conditions?
As has been mentioned if you have no inhibitor switch and select reverse and drive backwards with the OD engaged you will wreck the box and/or the OD.
Thank you Derek UK,

We (meaning myself and the other correspondents to this thread) do a lot of thinking here, all these points have been discussed above - and indeed you have contributed to many of those discussions (and I'm grateful for those contributions). In this bit you told me that no other speedometer drive pinion would fit in place of a 19t one:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...&postcount=531

... and we know GAM has a 19t speedometer pinion, because the teeth may be counted in a photo in this post:

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showp...&postcount=641

You will know very well (because you contributed to it) about the speedometer drive pinion issue, and the conclusion that it was not worth trying to fix. Another way to change the relationship between the speedometer reading (which is proportional to the rate at which the type D OD is rotating, and nothing else) and the speed of the car along the road is to change the size of the tyres (I have to say that you were just plain wrong in claiming smaller tyres would not change that ratio - but I'm still assuming you were just pulling my leg about that part).

GAM's spare wheels/tyres development hasn't been specifically about trying to fix the under reporting speedometer. I'd acquired a good set of spare wheels very cheaply and thought I'd use them in the winters. They came with (scrap) 175 section tyres which looked quite good on the wheels, so I bought (remarkably cheaply I thought) a set of new 175/60 M&S tyres and have fitted them myself (thus gaining a new skill - I like doing that). A welcome side effect of the 175/60 tyres is that they will lower the overall gearing by about 7% (I'm right about this one Derek UK, it is simple physics and there is no argument). So there we have it: the aim (well discussed above) was to acquire some winter wheels and tyres, in doing so I'm trying a slightly different look with GAM and coincidentally may end up with a speedometer less inaccurate that I had previously.

If I get time today I may well try out the silver wheel set with 175/60 tyres to see what they look like, check the motor car steers and handles well with them on and test the speedometer accuracy (against a GPS measurement on my cell phone). If the wheels/tyres don't work out then I have not lost much and will have pursued another avenue on the GAM experiment (which I enjoy).

All of this had been well thought through in the thread above.

Your point about the inhibitor switch has been well discussed in the above thread also (indeed I'm pretty sure you have contributed to those discussions), that is why I have just brought it forward again. Reversing with OD engaged would not wreck the M41 gearbox of course, but it would not be any good at all for the Type D overdrive. I've known about this issue since I bought GAM and as you well know, I intend to fix it once I've thought it through.

I'm really enjoying the GAM project (as I have the RB project) and I find it invaluable to think through issues via this thread. I welcome contributions (and I think many correspondents enjoy commenting also). I hope you will continue to contribute to the thread Derek UK.

:-)

PS. Bobwalkin time :-)

PPS. I have just found this lovely 1960 P1800 brochure on the internet:

https://www.pyhimyskerho.com/@Bin/50...chure-1960.pdf

... isn't the internet wonderful. The specification sheet explains the issue with GAM's speedometer drive perfectly:
Rear axle: Hypoid type rear axle. Ratio: 4.1 :1
or 4.56:1 when overdrive fitted
... hence GAM's speedometer reading 11% slow - einfach.
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Old May 13th, 2022, 11:59   #842
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Default Spare Wheels

Regular readers may recall my sub-project to provide GAM with a spare set of wheels that could be used instead of its smart red ones and shiny hubcaps in the winter months. I'd already procured 4 good wheels (from a later Amazon with the 8 oval holes) and fitted some new 175/60 tyres - the final piece of the jigsaw was a set of Volvo 9 1/2" hubcaps that arrived with the postie this morn. I've just fitted the silver wheels, here is the before photo of GAM with 165/80 tyres, the red wheels and shiny hubcaps:



... and 20 minutes later with the silver wheels, 175/60 tyres and black centred hubcaps (I'm guessing they came from a 144):



Even if I say so myself, these look much better than I had been expecting. The slightly smaller radius tyres lower the motor car by about 20mm, and the slightly shorter but fatter sidewalls suit GAM quite well. The hubcaps look quite good also.

So, how does the motor car drive on the silver wheels? The answer is surprisingly well. The steering is slightly lighter - probably because I'd used 32PSI all round. Grip is very good - I suppose due to the slightly wider section. I stopped at Morrison's store to take a few photos:



For driving around town I'd say that gearing is slightly more suitable now. The smaller tyres lower the overall gearing by about 7%, so GAM is noticeably more sprightly:



I took GAM out for a test drive on some local A and B roads with a short section of dual carriageway to test the speedometer against the GPS app on my cell phone. Making the speedometer less inaccurate was a subsidiary aim of the silver wheels project, but I'm pleased to report it is now just about spot on. That is an additional bonus.

One last shot of GAM with its new boots:



... I think that all works rather well.

Costs: the wheels were £40, the 175/60 tyres £130 and the hubcaps £11.90 (yes, seriously - what a bargain, one of those eBay auctions where no one else took an interest). Let's say about £185 including a few new valves and weights - in context that was less than I paid for the set of shiny new (fabulous looking) chromed hubcaps for the red wheels.

I'm going to leave these wheels on GAM for a few weeks and use that time to give the red wheels a good clean up, I'll swap them back in time for the Trent Valley section meeting I'm planning to attend in June. Then I'll put the silver wheels away with the other winter boots until November; the 175/60 tyres are all season (M&S) and so could be used during the summer, but I like the look of the red wheels as well.

I'm happy to call this little aside an absolute success. It didn't cost much and achieved all its aims.

:-)

Alan

PS. A small issue I have is the spare wheel still has a 165/80 tyre. It would be fine as a get you home repair, although the steering might be a bit wayward with a 1" larger tyre in one corner!
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Old May 13th, 2022, 12:46   #843
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I think I actually prefer the silvers, Alan , they look really good !😎
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Old May 13th, 2022, 13:04   #844
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I think I actually prefer the silvers, Alan , they look really good !😎
Thank you Andrew. I like them also. I'm giving the red wheels a really good spring clean this afternoon, once they are finished they will probably look very good on GAM.

I'm pleased with every aspect of this.

Alan
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Old May 13th, 2022, 13:19   #845
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Looks good. Note I said "Your change in tyre size will change both your gearing and how the speed is shown."
Ref no damage to the GB with no inhibitor I think I have read of damage to a reverse gear pawl in the box itself. I'd like more info on that if anyone knows anything about it.
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Old May 13th, 2022, 14:27   #846
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Looks good. Note I said "Your change in tyre size will change both your gearing and how the speed is shown."
Ref no damage to the GB with no inhibitor I think I have read of damage to a reverse gear pawl in the box itself. I'd like more info on that if anyone knows anything about it.
Thank you for that - I'm very happy with the silver wheels.

I think the piece about not having an inhibitor damaging the gearbox is bunkum. It only affects the OD so there is no way it could damage the 'box.

Sometimes my ideas for my projects go well (as the silver wheels one did) and sometimes they don't (like the ZZ Top wheels for example). I'm happy enough to put my hand up if I get something wrong. Invariably the correspondents contribute lots and there is a worthwhile discussion.

:-)

Alan
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Old May 14th, 2022, 18:09   #847
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PS. A small issue I have is the spare wheel still has a 165/80 tyre. It would be fine as a get you home repair, although the steering might be a bit wayward with a 1" larger tyre in one corner!
I'm quite enjoying driving GAM with the silver wheels on - they are an improvement. The steering is certainly lighter with the 175/60 tyres and the gearing is more suitable. Having the speedometer being accurate is a bonus as well.

I may well use the silver wheels more than I'd planned, and store the now sparkling red ones. In that case I thought I'd better address the spare wheel problem, so I've bought another 8 hole Volvo wheel (for £15) and another 175/60 tyre. I have everything else I need, so the whole thing will cost me £55.

:-)
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Old May 14th, 2022, 18:49   #848
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Regular readers may recall my sub-project to provide GAM with a spare set of wheels that could be used instead of its smart red ones and shiny hubcaps in the winter months. I'd already procured 4 good wheels (from a later Amazon with the 8 oval holes) and fitted some new 175/60 tyres - the final piece of the jigsaw was a set of Volvo 9 1/2" hubcaps that arrived with the postie this morn. I've just fitted the silver wheels, here is the before photo of GAM with 165/80 tyres, the red wheels and shiny hubcaps:



... and 20 minutes later with the silver wheels, 175/60 tyres and black centred hubcaps (I'm guessing they came from a 144):



Even if I say so myself, these look much better than I had been expecting. The slightly smaller radius tyres lower the motor car by about 20mm, and the slightly shorter but fatter sidewalls suit GAM quite well. The hubcaps look quite good also.

So, how does the motor car drive on the silver wheels? The answer is surprisingly well. The steering is slightly lighter - probably because I'd used 32PSI all round. Grip is very good - I suppose due to the slightly wider section. I stopped at Morrison's store to take a few photos:



For driving around town I'd say that gearing is slightly more suitable now. The smaller tyres lower the overall gearing by about 7%, so GAM is noticeably more sprightly:



I took GAM out for a test drive on some local A and B roads with a short section of dual carriageway to test the speedometer against the GPS app on my cell phone. Making the speedometer less inaccurate was a subsidiary aim of the silver wheels project, but I'm pleased to report it is now just about spot on. That is an additional bonus.

One last shot of GAM with its new boots:



... I think that all works rather well.

Costs: the wheels were £40, the 175/60 tyres £130 and the hubcaps £11.90 (yes, seriously - what a bargain, one of those eBay auctions where no one else took an interest). Let's say about £185 including a few new valves and weights - in context that was less than I paid for the set of shiny new (fabulous looking) chromed hubcaps for the red wheels.

I'm going to leave these wheels on GAM for a few weeks and use that time to give the red wheels a good clean up, I'll swap them back in time for the Trent Valley section meeting I'm planning to attend in June. Then I'll put the silver wheels away with the other winter boots until November; the 175/60 tyres are all season (M&S) and so could be used during the summer, but I like the look of the red wheels as well.

I'm happy to call this little aside an absolute success. It didn't cost much and achieved all its aims.

:-)

Alan

PS. A small issue I have is the spare wheel still has a 165/80 tyre. It would be fine as a get you home repair, although the steering might be a bit wayward with a 1" larger tyre in one corner!
I think it is an all round success too, GAM looks slightly younger and is definitely more sprightly and the speedometer reading accurately is also a win!
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Old May 15th, 2022, 00:05   #849
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The silver wheels look way better IMO Alan
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Old May 15th, 2022, 05:38   #850
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The silver wheels look way better IMO Alan
Thank you Luke, your opinion is really valued.

That seems to be the consensus: everyone seems to agree that the silver wheels are smarter. In addition the steering is lighter, the motor car is more sprightly and the speedometer error has been corrected.

It seems a pity not to use the correct red wheels with their new tyres and very smart new hubcaps, but I seem to have stumbled upon a really good solution - so perhaps they will spend much of their time in the spares shed?

It would be surprising if there are not other Amazons out there that have been converted from M40 to M41/OD transmissions but still have 4.1:1 (rather than 4.56:1) rear axles. The manifestations of this will be the gearing a little high and the speedometer reading a bit low. We have discussed possible solutions to the speedometer problem in the above - but fitting 175/60 tyres is the complete solution to both issues.

Alan
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