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Noise from rear axle

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Old Apr 19th, 2019, 08:38   #11
id5
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An unexpected coincidence, I have been looking for a thread on driving on space savers. I had a puncture yesterday on the front nearside after hitting a pot hole on our V40. I replaced it with the space saver and had problems driving on it. The punctured wheel was 225/45/R18 and the space saver R16. The car would drive okay, then start to pull the steering to the left, the pull increasing over a short distance before it would release and go back to a straight line. A novice or nervous driver would not have been happy driving with the problem. It gave the feeling of something binding up, hitting a limit and jumping out.

I had the tyre replaced and the car feels fine but I am concerned that there could have been damage to the drive train somewhere. Does anyone know?
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Old Apr 19th, 2019, 10:03   #12
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Having read the above I am now glad that I kept my damaged wheel and legal tyre so that in the event of a puncture I will be able to fit a full size spare asap after a puncture.

Having said that if you have a rear puncture are you better fitting the space saver to the front and moving the full size wheel to the rear or just fitting the space saver to the rear?

Also if the above were to happen when towing a caravan would you fit the space saver to the rear?
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Old Apr 19th, 2019, 12:53   #13
stuarts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by id5 View Post
An unexpected coincidence, I have been looking for a thread on driving on space savers. I had a puncture yesterday on the front nearside after hitting a pot hole on our V40. I replaced it with the space saver and had problems driving on it. The punctured wheel was 225/45/R18 and the space saver R16. The car would drive okay, then start to pull the steering to the left, the pull increasing over a short distance before it would release and go back to a straight line. A novice or nervous driver would not have been happy driving with the problem. It gave the feeling of something binding up, hitting a limit and jumping out.

I had the tyre replaced and the car feels fine but I am concerned that there could have been damage to the drive train somewhere. Does anyone know?
Whilst no expert on these systems, the symptoms you describe are exactly the same as mine. The transmission on mine got so hot after approximately seven miles that it burst the diff front seal, letting out the oil in a strong flow. The oil was so hot it was crackling (it sounded like a bad weld being carried out). The accompanying smoke had me on the phone to the fire brigade.
I suspect that the effect is worse on the rear, being a secondary drive with most power designed to go through the front end.
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Old Apr 19th, 2019, 17:11   #14
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Originally Posted by 100K+ View Post
Will any of you peps please tell me what year the cars are you are talking about?

What you are describing I believe is the case with the early Volvo V70/XC 70/V70 Cross Country, ( to approx. 2002/3MY) as I believe they have a different type of AWD system. This system 100% is VERY VERY sensitive to differences in tyre diameters - to the point where different tread depth is even critical.

The later V70/XC 70 use Haldex series 2/3/4 etc which I believe has no issue at all with different tyre diameters.
I have a 2004 V70 AWD R and have had no issues with overheating, but do fully agree with comments about squirrelly handling on a spacesaver.

Cheers
Bob
Ours is an XC70, 2010my, 116,000 miles, D5. I guess that it has a Haldex unit but don’t know whether 2, 3 or 4.
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Old Apr 19th, 2019, 20:03   #15
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Originally Posted by stuarts View Post
Whilst no expert on these systems, the symptoms you describe are exactly the same as mine. The transmission on mine got so hot after approximately seven miles that it burst the diff front seal, letting out the oil in a strong flow. The oil was so hot it was crackling (it sounded like a bad weld being carried out). The accompanying smoke had me on the phone to the fire brigade.
I suspect that the effect is worse on the rear, being a secondary drive with most power designed to go through the front end.
Two people, different cars, similar drive train, same symptoms. I am so glad that I was able to run mine slowly or I expect I might have had the same failure as you.

The V40 manual has a warning that the handling may be different. The manual for the V40 also states that the rear axle can be disconnected but does not tell you how. Does anyone know?
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Old Apr 19th, 2019, 21:42   #16
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Found this thread from here

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archi.../t-144353.html

This is similar to what I said earlier :- the early V70 + V70XC ran a viscous coupling which was very unforgiving re different tyre diameters.

Since about 2004 perhaps sooner all 4x4 systems fitted to Volvo have been a Haldex system which could car less about tyres of different diameters.

Cheers
Bob
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Old Apr 20th, 2019, 09:48   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 100K+ View Post
Found this thread from here

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/archi.../t-144353.html

This is similar to what I said earlier :- the early V70 + V70XC ran a viscous coupling which was very unforgiving re different tyre diameters.

Since about 2004 perhaps sooner all 4x4 systems fitted to Volvo have been a Haldex system which could car less about tyres of different diameters.

Cheers
Bob
Thanks Bob, I have done a little research myself and our V40 has a Haldex Gen 5 which doesn't have a viscous coupling. Reading on the Internet the Haldex Gen 5 should be able to cope if the speed is kept below 80kph. There are posts warning about staggered setups that run different diameter tyres between the front and the back but exceedingly few on cross axle diameter difference. It seems that ‘stuarts’ problem and mine are very rare occurrences.

I am now chasing the thought that it is not just the Haldex but competing safety systems. When I was driving back the instrument display should have lit up the Electronic Stability Control as the module should have seen that R16 space saver on the nearside wheel was rotating faster than the R18 nearside wheel, it was not. The Tyre Pressure System should have also lit up for the same reason as it should believe that the nearside was flat because its rotation speed was continually different from the other three wheels for a long period of time, but the light did not come on.

I think that the control modules thought that the nearside wheel with space saver on was suffering from a lack of traction and to keep the car stable just kept putting the brake on that wheel alone forcing the car to steer to the left as tractiopn was there. The Haldex hydraulics then had to work hard transferring power to the rear diff for the entire duration of the journey to balance the power. I think this happened with ‘stuarts’ car and after a time blew oil seal. I was lucky as I did not have to travel as far on the space saver.

I have tested the Tyre Pressure System this morning, dropping the nearside rear wheel to 20psi and it did not raise any warning. I could test the rest but there is little point as I have proven that something is wrong with at least one of the sensors that I think could have caused this problem to occur.

I will get the car alignment checked next week, change the offside front tyre for a new one and rotate the backs to the front. I will then send a compensation claim into the council to see if I can get them to pay. The car also needs a service, so I tell the dealer the problem with the sensor, the problem with the driving on a space saver and my theory, and then let them solve it. When I get it back, I will have some fun seeing if I can re-create either problem. The car is still under standard and Select warranty so if they haven’t fixed it then they will have it back until they do.
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Old Apr 20th, 2019, 12:00   #18
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I'm not sure I understand how your problem arose, but Stuarts problem is deffo the result of the viscos coupling. I suspect the viscos bit allows for a slight degree of difference in rotational speeds which are non- continuous. ie driving on a normal road - sometimes the road is straight, sometimes bends left/right. This type of driving allows the coupling to remain temperature stable. However, a continuing bias due to wheel diameters being different causes temperature build-up which cant be dissipated - hence the problem.
IIRC Volvo were not the only manufacturer to have issues with 4x4 viscos couplings - Vauxhall Cavalier did too, the 4x4 model actually being withdrawn.
I suspect if Stuart drove his car for any length of time around a tight roundabout he would experience the same issues.

Good luck with the council - I got paid up by Northumbria CC about 18 month back - I did however provide them with detailed pictures of the hole responsible - (along with measurements,)and the slashed tyre and I only claimed for the %age of unused tyre - something like 5mm. I even worked the 1.6mm "wasted" tread into the equation. Told them it was not fair to claim for a new tyre when the damaged tyre was part worn. Paid up in less than 10 days.

Cheers
Bob
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Old May 25th, 2019, 08:00   #19
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...I have tested the Tyre Pressure System this morning, dropping the nearside rear wheel to 20psi and it did not raise any warning. I could test the rest but there is little point as I have proven that something is wrong with at least one of the sensors that I think could have caused this problem to occur.

I will get the car alignment checked next week, change the offside front tyre for a new one and rotate the backs to the front. I will then send a compensation claim into the council to see if I can get them to pay. The car also needs a service, so I tell the dealer the problem with the sensor, the problem with the driving on a space saver and my theory, and then let them solve it. When I get it back, I will have some fun seeing if I can re-create either problem. The car is still under standard and Select warranty so if they haven’t fixed it then they will have it back until they do…
Some news. After two new tyres, alignment checks, getting the V40 to repeat the problem on the Tempa spare, it went off for a service. I asked them to look at the TPM as it does not warn if I change to a Tempa spare nor if the pressure drops and told them that is does not throw up any warnings when using the spare. The technician, checked the codes, reset the electrics, updated software and said if the problem occurs again bring it in. So, the computer said no, and actually doing some physical testing such as dropping the pressure on a wheel and going up and down the road was beyond them or they would not investigate.

It is easy to use 20/20 hindsight and say why didn’t you do this test. Instead I will play the game and when I get a few spare hours to waste I will drop the pressure and drive it in.
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Old Jun 26th, 2019, 04:36   #20
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After a few weeks or so of our wonderful roads the front tyre pressures have dropped to 20psi on the nearside and 23psi on the offside without any TPM alerts. Two day investigation booked in for next week.
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