XC90 Aquaplaning

[gaby]

Dunlop has what they call "aquaplaning defence":
https://www.dunlop.eu/en_gb/consumer...INSPT5SUV.html

[Haldex]

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

@Haldex of course you must be right. Image is a winter tyre Nokian WR4

As for summer rubber being softer? not too sure on that one either?

Winter tyres are not just made for snow you do know that?

No standing water at 6ºc - 7ºc????

You are not convincing me of your hydrodynamics here

Appreciate the cynicism - but no- I must not be right. But occasionaly - I am The design comparison diagrams I posted are not mine- so this is not about me being right or wrong.. It's you against the tire industry

Who said winter tires are just made for snow? But most certainly- they are made for optimal performance in WINTER temperatures. So by no means are they designed for 20+C summer showers. But again- as said- to each his own. I know quite a few hillbillies who think they know better than all of the automotive industry - and that summer tires are a marketing gimmick made for us who have money to burn

OK, UK winters may be mostly rainy- unlike most of the mainland Europe, where we have proper winters. That's why I said you are less likely to encounter standing water in winter time.

What about the WR4?.. It's thread kind of resembles what I quoted about summer tire design- and that proves that winter tires are better at aquaplaning?

[RobQuads]

So what do people think are worse - Summer tyres in the winter OR winter tyres in the summer.

Although it's not recommended it generally feels like the consequences in the winter will be much worse i.e. sliding into a ditch etc. This typically would not happy with winter tyres in the summer, they may wear quick and not be as grippy but its not going to be a complete sudden loss like you might get on summers in the cold.

[Haldex]

I would say it greatly depends on where one lives/drives. In Paris we get an occasional snowflake every 4-5 years- winters are mostly dry and temps seldomly drop below 0C- so most people drive on summers year-round. I spend most of winter in the Alps - so for me winters are a must.

Driving on winters year-round is definitely less risky- even though comparison tests have shown 25-30% longer stopping distances (particularly in wet..) using winters in 15+C temperatures, for example (for those who like to read: https://www.caaquebec.com/fileadmin/..._2008ABANG.pdf) However, expect the tires to last for no more 10-15000kms- as they will simply disintegrate due to high temperature.. So you'll end up replacing a full set of winter tires annually.. And winters are significantly more expensive than summers.

[Deman77]

Originally Posted by RobQuads

So what do people think are worse - Summer tyres in the winter OR winter tyres in the summer.

Although it's not recommended it generally feels like the consequences in the winter will be much worse i.e. sliding into a ditch etc. This typically would not happy with winter tyres in the summer, they may wear quick and not be as grippy but its not going to be a complete sudden loss like you might get on summers in the cold.

Worn off tyres in any season are the worst (and that’s way before the legal
limit), then summers in winter , then all seasons in winter and then winters in summer.

[MaDProFF]

Originally Posted by Haldex

I would say it greatly depends on where one lives/drives. In Paris we get an occasional snowflake every 4-5 years- winters are mostly dry and temps seldomly drop below 0C- so most people drive on summers year-round. I spend most of winter in the Alps - so for me winters are a must.

Driving on winters year-round is definitely less risky- even though comparison tests have shown 25-30% longer stopping distances (particularly in wet..) using winters in 15+C temperatures, for example (for those who like to read: https://www.caaquebec.com/fileadmin/..._2008ABANG.pdf) However, expect the tires to last for no more 10-15000kms- as they will simply disintegrate due to high temperature.. So you'll end up replacing a full set of winter tires annually.. And winters are significantly more expensive than summers.

Haldex, this is why I question some of these statements, it is actually my own experience, I do not understand some of these statements.

I know there is a different between good summer / winter tyres and bad ones, but seriously, I have left my tyres on my vehicles year around, and we have had some hot summers and mild winters, and at I know that these tyres are lasting 27k miles and more, and these are on an AMG, which was sold with 26k on the clock all done on winter tyres for 2 1/2 years, and I took them off just before I sold as the fronts were getting worn, and the back had 40% left, if I had swapped them around easy see over 30k, and put the original tyres back on which were taken off when car was new.

I also Drive a van which again has winters all year around, RWD 250 BHP, and tyres are getting like 30k miles.

As for 30% longer stopping distance, yeah that really is crap.

Oddly enough the one figure ºc I never see set in stone is at what point winter tyres in the summer become dangerous, and it is never.

I am sure if you ragged a car around a track in hot weather you are going to wear them quicker, but for day to day general driving on the roads they do a dam good job.

I drove my Audi S3 around Nurburgring with Winters on in the summer, and was still out cornering an M3 CSL.

I am sure there are some scare mongering sales pitch to get you to put summer tyres back on, they want people to buy rims and 2 sets?

[Clan]

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

yeah they really are not, although maybe a RWD more likely, but certainly not a awd with decent tyres and half decent driver.

you should see some of the videos showing this on you tube , just a twitch and you are off the road in a serious accident .

[Clan]

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

Haldex, this is why I question some of these statements, it is actually my own experience, I do not understand some of these statements.

I know there is a different between good summer / winter tyres and bad ones, but seriously, I have left my tyres on my vehicles year around, and we have had some hot summers and mild winters, and at I know that these tyres are lasting 27k miles and more, and these are on an AMG, which was sold with 26k on the clock all done on winter tyres for 2 1/2 years, and I took them off just before I sold as the fronts were getting worn, and the back had 40% left, if I had swapped them around easy see over 30k, and put the original tyres back on which were taken off when car was new.

I also Drive a van which again has winters all year around, RWD 250 BHP, and tyres are getting like 30k miles.

As for 30% longer stopping distance, yeah that really is crap.

Oddly enough the one figure ºc I never see set in stone is at what point winter tyres in the summer become dangerous, and it is never.

I am sure if you ragged a car around a track in hot weather you are going to wear them quicker, but for day to day general driving on the roads they do a dam good job.

I drove my Audi S3 around Nurburgring with Winters on in the summer, and was still out cornering an M3 CSL.

I am sure there are some scare mongering sales pitch to get you to put summer tyres back on, they want people to buy rims and 2 sets?

I would agree with you , I have a set of Vreidstein Snowtrac tyres ,on two of my cars , they are superb all year round , they last a lot longer , their grip is at least as good as premium tyres if not better . Braking is as good as it gets and ride is so smooth and quiet like driving on that silent Tarmac all the time ...

[MaDProFF]

@Clan I know there are loads of youtube videos, but the one thing they do not show is what sort of tyres they had on the vehicle, as you know there is a huge difference between good quality plenty of tread and driving with a set of bald tyres which surprisingly is far too often than not.

[Haldex]

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

Haldex, this is why I question some of these statements, it is actually my own experience, I do not understand some of these statements.

I have utmost respect for anyone's experience- but the "statements" you call "crap" based on your experience alone are easily confirmable- I even provided links to studies done by reputable institutions, slightly more knowledgeable than you, for those who wish to learn more. And your statements are just that- your statements.

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

II took them off just before I sold as the fronts were getting worn, and the back had 40% left

Fronts were "getting worn" meaning rears with 40% are not even getting worn? Clearly we have different definitions of a "worn tire". You drive a €70K+ car on tires that I personally wouldn't use for a monkey swing. 50% worn winter tire is due for replacement, if you intend to use it in snow.

"For reliable braking and cornering performance on snow and ice, replace winter tires when they’re half worn."

Brand new – 12/32”
25 percent worn – 9.5/32”
50 percent worn – 7/32” REPLACE TIRES
75 percent worn – 4.5/32”
100 percent worn – 2/32”

And ofcourse- even though this is all "crap" - here's a link: https://www.auto123.com/en/news/wint...venting/23806/

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

As for 30% longer stopping distance, yeah that really is crap.

There's a link to a full test in my post above. You have something to back your statements or "crap" is all you can say?

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

I am sure if you ragged a car around a track in hot weather you are going to wear them quicker, but for day to day general driving on the roads they do a dam good job

"Winter tires are made of a thermal rubber that is designed especially to maintain its elasticity when the mercury falls, giving them superior road-adherence qualities in cold weather. This rubber, however, degenerates much more quickly when the temperature rises. If you decide to keep your winter tires on all year, the tread-wear indicators showing it’s time to buy new tires will appear more quickly, generally after less than 10,000 kilometres."

https://www.caaquebec.com/en/on-the-...risky-venture/

Originally Posted by MaDProFF

I drove my Audi S3 around Nurburgring with Winters on in the summer, and was still out cornering an M3 CSL.

And I have a 15" schlong, with shark teeth. But I don't have pictures of it

I am sure there are some scare mongering sales pitch to get you to put summer tyres back on, they want people to buy rims and 2 sets?

Ok, I admit- I work for Michelin. This is all a marketing pitch!