D5 (2005 on) D5 big end failure

[Backhill1]

Chris

I work for an Engine manufacturer and we have a depot in Poole, an independent RCFA (Route cause failure analysis) will add weight to your argument but I am not sure it will improve your offer. My guess is you have taken a lot of costs to strip the engine which once they knew it was trashed became academic.

When we are challenged this falls into what we call "Good Will" territory and is normally at the discretion of your rep. Have you owned from new and was the first repair covered under warranty, your ownership? This will strengthen your case.

However as I've already said there is actually no real need for them to offer anything.

Agree with before large end failure like this is not often attributed to oil quality but I suspect you have had coolant contamination (post cylinder head repair) which has caused bearing failure. Has an oil sample been taken or can you access getting one and I can get this analysed for you (this could prove conclusive).

The dealer should have stripped the engine for inspection and all parts should be labelled if you can collate pictures I can put together an independent report for you.
If you PM me your e-mail address I will send you an example of what we could supply.

FYI over 90% of catastrophic bearing failure is attributed to coolant ingress being ignored.

Good luck and these two failures are connected in my opinion we just need to help you prove it.

[Dancake]

You've still only got their word for it that it was the big end bearing that failed. I'm pretty sure the life expectancy of them is considerably more than 60,000 miles. They will try anything to wriggle out of it, but keep at them. A car with full main dealer service history and 60,000 miles on it is not expected to fail at such low mileage. Get the independant engineers assessment to see if Volvo are guilty of poor workmanship with regards the head replacement.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by chris 1234

Hi - new to the site,

I have a 5 yr old XC60 D5 with 60,000 miles on the clock and full main dealer Volvo service history.

It has had a major engine failure and we have been told a big end bearing has cracked / shattered.

The main dealer has said there was plenty of oil in the engine and no blocked 'oil ways'.

Apprently it will need a new engine at a cost of ~ £9k.

This is the second fault on this relatively low mileage engine - it had a cylinder head replaced under warranty 2 years ago apparently some sort of belt issue.

From looking around this is pretty unusual?

Volvo have offered 50% ie we pay £4.5k

To my mind this shouldn't happen at this low mileage. Do you think the offer is reasonable, are there any other questions I should ask or are there any other avenues I can persue to get Volvo to cover more of the cost?

thanks for your advice

I would say the huge forces on the bearings when the Head was damaged is the cause of this , the only reason a big end bearing would fail is lack of oil otherwise . A strip and inspection should give a lot more insight into the cause . But would it be practical ?

The most economic repair is a second hand engine about £1500 + labour .. It will be as good as new ... if you could get some contribution on this everyone would save money .

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by Dancake

So you're telling me that the wrong spec of oil cannot lead to bearing failure on the crankshaft? Engine components wear at different rates, and they don't always fail in a particular order. There's always the possibility that the replacement head could be the source of the problem, but again you need an independant engineers assessment to confirm this.

Not in 60,000 miles!

You could run an 0w20, a 10w60 or even the dreaded Acea C3 Edge 5w40 and it would not cause a main bearing failure before a turbo or top end issue.

I'm fairly certain they botched the last repair and did not inspect the main bearings for damage or excess wear, which they were supposed to do.

If the HG was not correctly torqued it could have caused a coolant to oil leak, but most owners detect the loss of coolant (Or overflow) or Mayo on the dipstick well before the turbo, cam shaft or rings fail.

A used oil analysis will show up any excess anti freeze (High Sodium and Potassium), in addition to water in the oil, increase in insolubles and decrease in viscosity.

[Backhill1]

Glycol (engine coolant) and water in the oil system in very small qty is a primary cause of white metal bearing failure. Water evaporated and we are left with sodium. This effectively eats the white metal bearings and removes the clearance.

My guess is one of the big end picked up and spun, the debris then caused the next main to pick up and cut off the supply to the next big end and so it goes on.

My guess is your liners are ok and pistons as they are cooling jet fed as is the top end. You have classic bottom end failure what we now have to work out is the cause.
photos of each main and big end will confirm but hopefully it started after cylinder no 1, if we have 1 & 2 say ok then a failure after 3 than really adds weight to this theory with a good oil sample.

From my experience of interference damage on a bottom end it will fail almost immediately upon start up, however with todays light aluminium pistons will take the force and impact and have little effect on the bottom end. When did this failure happen (mileage).

One thing to consider is I think Volvo are free issuing an engine and I would guess the 4K is covering the labour to strip and inspect and change. SO by digging deeper you might move liability from Volvo to the dealer?
I'm not sure how this could play out, if its the same owner and dealer then Volvo could leverage the labour costs however once you attribute blame to the cylinder head repairer Volvo could remove there offer.
I would suggest you have this offer in writing before we do any further investigation (without there direct knowledge to there offer) a clean sample will remove contamination from the mix and we are at component failure.

BTW we will gave away costs we can control in a failure but not those we cannot, so I can give away parts / engine etc. extended warranty. However someone has to pay the dealer that undertakes the works and as your car is out of warranty I am not sure where this sits or if Volvo has the capability to control this offering.

[skyship007]

Finger trouble post.

[skyship007]

Blackhill:
Glycol (engine coolant) and water in the oil system in very small qty is a primary cause of white metal bearing failure. Water evaporated and we are left with sodium. This effectively eats the white metal bearings and removes the clearance.

The anti freeze is ten times more harmful than the water. Most of the water just evapourates off, but the AF reacts with the detergent and dispersant additives in the oil (Mostly Calcium sulphate). That causes sludge to form which after a while will start to restrict the oil pump intake or even block the oil filter.

If the amount of coolant is serious, the emulsified oil will chew out the turbo bearings and damage the rings/cylinders very quickly. The turbo bearings contain Copper which reacts with acids that form after the glycol has reacted with the detergents.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...on-engine-oils
(That article is about non turbo cars, but it's still relevant)

Because the dealer said the oil was good, it sounds more like direct damage to the main bearings.

All the dealer has offered so far is not to make a profit from fitting a good Recon.

[Backhill1]

Skyship I give up offering any advice in this diesel section as you nit pick every detail.

We analyse 1000's of samples a week and "Coolant" always shows as sodium when its in the levels significant to cause engine damage but to low to create emulsification.

I'm not sure what happened to the OP as I had asked a colleague to attend the local dealer to collate the RCFA data to enable an independent report and analysis but he is now out the country for 3 weeks so ive probably missed the boat.

[skyship007]

I just try and quote accepted facts and links to informative articles. A UOA report just lists various base elements, it does not mean there is actual Sodium in the sample, but a compound of Sodium.
Sodium based compounds are used by some cheaper oils as an additive. Some versions of Castrol GTX use it, which can confuse the results as a dodgy Iffy Lube or even dealer uses cheap GTX but writes a bill for Castrol Edge.

If you get a coolant leak the anti freeze does cause a big rise in Sodium and most anti freeze also contains Potassium compounds, which will also show up in the UOA when it should be zero.

Unfortunately with most older engines it's very difficult to prove why an engine failed, so unless a repair is under warranty the OP might have to rely on the good will of the dealer. Obviously it's worth trying to get them to pay for all of the costs of a good Recon block and I wish the OP good luck with that effort. Oddly enough the press can be of assistance, as no manufacturer likes bad press.
It might be worth doing a detailed Google search to see if this type of failure or botched job has happened before, as that would increase the incentive of the dealer to agree better terms.