240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

That would be why Alan - i never look at the diet stuff, full of fat and aspartame!

After trying to nickel plate over chrome and it blistering like an acne-ridden teenager, i gave up for a while to research some more.
It seems the chrome and/or one of the base plates between the chrome and the pipe reacted badly with the nickel, hence the blisters.

From what i can glean, it seems a copper isolation plate would have been the way to go over the chrome first before the nickel. It also seems a copper base plate is needed, even on steel.

I've been busy with other things recently, mainly refurbishing the anti roll bar drop links for my Rover :



New ones are hard and expensive to find and don't last long, partly because of the original design. I've reworked that design, beefing it up slightly and using cold-cure polyurethane as the rubber. So far they're a vast improvement on the originals but time will tell. If they last more than 6 weeks (after i get it back) then i'll call that a win but i'm expecting (hoping!) they last a lot longer!

However, now i've got the drop links sorted, the plan is to return to the electroplating (as well as a few other projects and a couple of new ones) and look at nickel plating the other drop links i've got for refurb.

Always something to do!

Indeed Dave, always something to do - that is the best way.

Won’t chrome plating have a layer of nickel under it? Maybe that is affecting the migration of ions in the electrolytic process?

You have probably looked into this already, but drop links are common parts, isn’t there another manufacturer’s part that would fit?

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by 360beast

If you were to turbo the 244 using a donor car it would involve removing your dashboard and heating system to allow you enough room to feed the new loom in. LH2.4 uses a thick loom from the EZK above the drivers feet that then goes along to the N/S of the car and over the heating system, this then goes through a big grommet in to the engine bay. The O/S has engine bay loom through a grommet to the ECU, there are then wires going from the ECU off to the main wiring loom for the fuse box etc, It isn't a quick easy job as I was looking in to converting a 760 V6 to 2.3 turbo, luckily the customer decided on a 940 saloon instead for me to convert that is already running LH2.4.

If it were me I would be building a B230E so you have the 130ish hp to start with, then fitting twin webers, decent manifold and stainless exhaust with a VX3 camshaft. This should see you in the region of a 165hp turbo engine but with no lag and a much nicer noise... less hassle too!

What first class advice - that is the real value if this forum.

As you probably realised the other day, I really like the Royal Barge, it is a long term keeper, and maybe I’ll still be driving it after Dan (my 16 year old son) has my Porsche and my Skoda Superb is beyond economic repair. I like the simplicity of the RB and I want to keep it looking the same, which sort of rules out the turbo route. A B230/carburettor/AW71 route is where we will probably end up. Many thanks.
Alan

PS. The problem with the RB is that it has turned out too well and doesn’t really do anything wrong, which is a good thing :-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Indeed Dave, always something to do - that is the best way.

Won’t chrome plating have a layer of nickel under it? Maybe that is affecting the migration of ions in the electrolytic process?

You have probably looked into this already, but drop links are common parts, isn’t there another manufacturer’s part that would fit!

Alan

You've sort of hit the nail on the head with the nickel Alan - or at least as far as i understand it anyway. There is nickel mixed with the chrome, it's what makes it bright and shiny apparently. It's also what made it blister when i tried plating over it i think.

As for your idea about other manufacturers, no, sadly not! They're unique to the 800 and possibly the earlye Legends too, although they often had similar but with the axes of the holes for the bolts at 90 degrees to each other. That said, so did some early Mk1 800s but not mine.

Some have tried BMW links but without success and VAG group links as well plus some rose-jointed ones. None worked properly. They all went back to the original sort.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

What first class advice - that is the real value if this forum.

As you probably realised the other day, I really like the Royal Barge, it is a long term keeper, and maybe I’ll still be driving it after Dan (my 16 year old son) has my Porsche and my Skoda Superb is beyond economic repair. I like the simplicity of the RB and I want to keep it looking the same, which sort of rules out the turbo route. A B230/carburettor/AW71 route is where we will probably end up. Many thanks.
Alan

PS. The problem with the RB is that it has turned out too well and doesn’t really do anything wrong, which is a good thing :-)

Pretty much the same advice as i gave earlier Alan, good to have things confirmed by others as well so thanks Luke!

There are subtle differences in what Luke suggested to what i'm suggesting - his is more fast road/race orientated whereas mine is more give it a bit more grunt but still reliable and economical for everyday use. Main difference being the VX cam instead of the V cam i suggested and (if i've understood Lukes post correctly) he's suggesting a pair of Weber DCOE carbs (one throttle intake per cylinder) and i was suggesting a DGV twin-choke.

Ultimately Lukes idea would make more mower than mine but the power would be spread more evenly with the torque coming in at lower rpm than his.

Either way we both agree on the B230E as the base engine it seems!

[360beast]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Pretty much the same advice as i gave earlier Alan, good to have things confirmed by others as well so thanks Luke!

There are subtle differences in what Luke suggested to what i'm suggesting - his is more fast road/race orientated whereas mine is more give it a bit more grunt but still reliable and economical for everyday use. Main difference being the VX cam instead of the V cam i suggested and (if i've understood Lukes post correctly) he's suggesting a pair of Weber DCOE carbs (one throttle intake per cylinder) and i was suggesting a DGV twin-choke.

Ultimately Lukes idea would make more mower than mine but the power would be spread more evenly with the torque coming in at lower rpm than his.

Either way we both agree on the B230E as the base engine it seems!

Dave knows me very well

I suggest the VX3 cam as it is better suited to the N/A engines where as the V cam is better for the turbo engines. You can buy brand new VX3 cams from IPD in the USA. The VX3 cam is a V cam that's advanced 3 degrees I believe, somehow this makes it better for N/A engines, I haven't looked at it thoroughly myself as all of my Volvo's will end up turbo apart from the one 360 which will end up with twin dcoe Weber 40s and a VX3 cam, however this is a long way away from even being started so no need to look yet.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154176321304 a lot of money really for a non turbo redblock but unfortunately prices are on the up for everything with RWD Volvo's.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by 360beast

Dave knows me very well

I suggest the VX3 cam as it is better suited to the N/A engines where as the V cam is better for the turbo engines. You can buy brand new VX3 cams from IPD in the USA. The VX3 cam is a V cam that's advanced 3 degrees I believe, somehow this makes it better for N/A engines, I haven't looked at it thoroughly myself as all of my Volvo's will end up turbo apart from the one 360 which will end up with twin dcoe Weber 40s and a VX3 cam, however this is a long way away from even being started so no need to look yet.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154176321304 a lot of money really for a non turbo redblock but unfortunately prices are on the up for everything with RWD Volvo's.

The VX3 cam would be better for race stuff Luke, the normal V cam would be better on an auto though, less peaky if you gather my drift and the VX3 could be a bit sluggish around the torque converter stall speed. After that, the VX3 would pull harder though and be more of a screamer at the top end as well. The V cam would be smoother coming "on the cam" and would get there at lower rpm so more suited to the auto.

I see that B230E is an auto as well, i wonder if it comes with all ancillaries including the fuel distributor? Would be a potential bonus for Alan if it came with the autobox although it's possibly a ZF4-HP22. Not too bad as ZF boxes go and handles 220bhp (just!) but would necessitate modification of the selector lever, unlike the AW box.

[360beast]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

The VX3 cam would be better for race stuff Luke, the normal V cam would be better on an auto though, less peaky if you gather my drift and the VX3 could be a bit sluggish around the torque converter stall speed. After that, the VX3 would pull harder though and be more of a screamer at the top end as well. The V cam would be smoother coming "on the cam" and would get there at lower rpm so more suited to the auto.

I see that B230E is an auto as well, i wonder if it comes with all ancillaries including the fuel distributor? Would be a potential bonus for Alan if it came with the autobox although it's possibly a ZF4-HP22. Not too bad as ZF boxes go and handles 220bhp (just!) but would necessitate modification of the selector lever, unlike the AW box.

The VX3 has something like 11.5mm of lift! Quite a bit more than most of the cams Volvo produced so I assume the cam would be the same?

A ZF box wouldn't be the way to go, both I and Kev have said how horrible they are to drive. I drove my 760 turbo engine donor and Kev owned a 760 with a ZF and we both agree they are too sluggish and slow to react to throttle movement compared to an AW.

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by 360beast

The VX3 has something like 11.5mm of lift! Quite a bit more than most of the cams Volvo produced so I assume the cam would be the same?

A ZF box wouldn't be the way to go, both I and Kev have said how horrible they are to drive. I drove my 760 turbo engine donor and Kev owned a 760 with a ZF and we both agree they are too sluggish and slow to react to throttle movement compared to an AW.

I can't remember the lift on a V cam Luke, it's slightly less than the VX cams though, making it more drivable everyday. From memory the VX cams were all the same lift but the VX3 is as you said earlier, 3 degrees adavanced over the others.

I found similar with the ZF boxes, more agricultural/public transport boxes than decent car gearboxes. The AW is definitely a better, smoother box and the changes are much better as well, rather than the thump of a ZF if it wakes up enough to bother changing when it should.

[Bugjam1999]

Originally Posted by 360beast

If you were to turbo the 244 using a donor car it would involve removing your dashboard and heating system to allow you enough room to feed the new loom in. LH2.4 uses a thick loom from the EZK above the drivers feet that then goes along to the N/S of the car and over the heating system, this then goes through a big grommet in to the engine bay. The O/S has engine bay loom through a grommet to the ECU, there are then wires going from the ECU off to the main wiring loom for the fuse box etc, It isn't a quick easy job as I was looking in to converting a 760 V6 to 2.3 turbo, luckily the customer decided on a 940 saloon instead for me to convert that is already running LH2.4.

If it were me I would be building a B230E so you have the 130ish hp to start with, then fitting twin webers, decent manifold and stainless exhaust with a VX3 camshaft. This should see you in the region of a 165hp turbo engine but with no lag and a much nicer noise... less hassle too!

Part of this advice is now out of date as plug and play conversion looms to convert a non-2.4 car to 2.4 are now available, so there’s no need to remove the dash. I wrote up the linked guide a year or so back to cover the main points of a turbo conversion for a U.K. 240, most of which is relevant if you just wanted to fit a fuel injection engine to a car that didn’t have one previously (and didn’t want a turbo).

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=290295

Cheers

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Bugjam1999

Part of this advice is now out of date as plug and play conversion looms to convert a non-2.4 car to 2.4 are now available, so there’s no need to remove the dash. I wrote up the linked guide a year or so back to cover the main points of a turbo conversion for a U.K. 240, most of which is relevant if you just wanted to fit a fuel injection engine to a car that didn’t have one previously (and didn’t want a turbo).

https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=290295

Cheers

Useful but i think Alan (the OP) wants to do it in a way that would be contemprary to the age of the car and more importantly, as simply as possible using parts that could/would likely have been common in 1980 when the car was built.

For that reason the B230E fits the bill quite well, although injection it's K-Jetronic so if the whole engine including the fuel distributor is transplanted, there's only a few electrical connections to add and i'm fairly sure they can be picked up from the OE fusebox and possibly the loom may already contain them. After all, the K-Jet system was used in the 240 models back then so it should make it more "plug'n'play" that way.