E10 for 240s?

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Wagon Sailor

I've tried E10 in all of my Hondas. Irrespective of any longevity or materials degradation issues, they don't like it.

I'm going to avoid it in the 240 for as long as I can.

Your 240 is more likely to adapt to/run on E10 better than your Hondas straight "off the bat".

Are your Hondas injected? If so, before your next use, pull the memory fuse for the PGM-Fi control for 30s or so and refit and see how it goes.

Regarding the alleged committment to keeping E5 available, i was given to understand it would be Super Unleaded only, that won't bother me as i always use Super Unleaded for the octane rating.

One problem nobody has mentioned is the fact fuels with ethanol have a higher water content so condensation in tanks could become a problem.

The answer is simple, add some methanol or as we know it better, methylated spirits to the tank.

A 10% concentration works best for removing condensation/water from the fuel tank so wait until it's down to 4 gallons or less (18L) then add 2L of meths - Toolstation is usually the cheapest at about £7 for a 2L bottle.

I searched for some solid information on E10 compatibility with our cars and found conflicting results. One site said anything from 1986 onwards, another was very specific but only listed cars from 2000 onwards, using Wagon Sailors Honda as a starting point (and also having a vested interest in Honda/Rover compatibility) i searched Honda compatibility and also Rover. One site said all Honda PGM-Fi models (from aboutt 1986 onwards), another gave a list of specific post-2000 models and on the Legend, said it was only 2006 onwards. The Legend has always been PGM-Fi since birth in 1986 so who should i believe?
Then i cross-refernced Rover models, as we all know, until 1996 Rover and Honda made almost the same cars, many with shared engines and platforms. The same site as listed the Legend from 2006 on only said ALL Rover models would run E10.

I think a lot of common sense is needed here, look at the countries the cars come from and their history of E10 use. Sweden has had it for donkeys (not sure on the exact date but probably long enough to cover all 240 and onwards models) so it's reasonable to say most Volvos will run on it.
Also look at the export markets of the manufacturers concerned - Volvo sold a lot of cars in the USA where ethanol has been a way of life since the early 70s, likewise for Honda so by applying a little lateral thiking and common sense, you can work out if your car is compatible.

As for the comment made by DW42, ethanol boosts the octane rating so why your car is pinging.pre-igniting/pinking/detonating on long hills is probably a matter worth investigating!

[Wagon Sailor]

In my experience, the ECUs used by Honda's H22 series of engines take about a full tank to relearn what the injectors are squirting in. With E10 it took longer and even then I wasn't convinced.

Further, all vtec engines I've tried feel smoother on 97 octane (subjective!). They tend to give slightly better economy in about the same proportion as the extra cost, so pence per mile stays roughly the same (objective!).

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Wagon Sailor

In my experience, the ECUs used by Honda's H22 series of engines take about a full tank to relearn what the injectors are squirting in. With E10 it took longer and even then I wasn't convinced.

Further, all vtec engines I've tried feel smoother on 97 octane (subjective!). They tend to give slightly better economy in about the same proportion as the extra cost, so pence per mile stays roughly the same (objective!).

The ECUs on the Hondas are all based around similar architecture so doesn't make much difference whether it's a D16, F20, H22, C27, C30, C32, J30, J35 or whatever, if it's injected then it's a PGM-Fi system so will take about a tank simply on switching fuel brands.

Removing the system memory fuse allows a reset of fuel trims to factory values so it relearns quicker.

The VTEC system is definitely smoother and more powerful on Super Unleaded, when Shell V-Power first came out, that was the best fuel for VTEC equipped cars but since they (appear to have) altered the formula, it's not so good - BP Ultimate wins in VTEC and normal Hondas now.
Generally premium unleaded returns 10-15% better economy than normal unleaded and the cost difference is smaller than that so it's cheaper to run on premium unleaded than normal unleaded, even cheap supermarket unleaded. This was a proven fact a few years ago when as a forum, several Honda owners (generally J30 V6 VTEC but a few others including H22, C27, K24 etc) all participated in a fuel survey.

Might be worth trying the E10 again in your H22 but this time, pull the PGM-Fi fuse before you start filling up and refit after, it may well respond better.

[Paul240480]

E10 has been in use over here in France for a good few years. I used to put it in my now sold (in 2017) 240 B200e and it made no difference to how it ran at all. It’s still going too as am in touch with current owner.

I remember at one fuel station which had a laminated sheet of cars that can take E10 giving the ‘from year’. There were loads stating from model year . 02, 04, 06 and so on. As I scrolled down to Volvo it was from model year 197* can’t recall exactly but it was defo one of the 70’s.

[Stephen Edwin]

Originally Posted by Paul240480

E10 has been in use over here in France for a good few years. I used to put it in my now sold (in 2017) 240 B200e and it made no difference to how it ran at all. It’s still going too as am in touch with current owner.

I remember at one fuel station which had a laminated sheet of cars that can take E10 giving the ‘from year’. There were loads stating from model year . 02, 04, 06 and so on. As I scrolled down to Volvo it was from model year 197* can’t recall exactly but it was defo one of the 70’s.

In my book that, especially coming from Paul, is a definitive answer.

Thank you Paul

.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Paul240480

E10 has been in use over here in France for a good few years. I used to put it in my now sold (in 2017) 240 B200e and it made no difference to how it ran at all. It’s still going too as am in touch with current owner.

I remember at one fuel station which had a laminated sheet of cars that can take E10 giving the ‘from year’. There were loads stating from model year . 02, 04, 06 and so on. As I scrolled down to Volvo it was from model year 197* can’t recall exactly but it was defo one of the 70’s.

... that is another reason for believing my 1980 244 is in the sweet spot for an historic car: young enough to run on modern fuel, have disc brakes, PAS, proper lights and so on, but just old enough not to have any computers, ABS, traction control und so weiter. Also no more MoTs, and from next year no more tax :-)

[davidcheshire]

The Honest John article's comments section quoted this Express site:

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...ble-check-fuel

About one third of the way down, it says:

"Volvo cars: E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Volvo cars with petrol engines introduced to the market since 1976 based upon servicing and other conditions according to the equipment and material with which the vehicle . E10 petrol is not cleared for a limited number of S/V40 models with petrol engines produced in the mid-1990s with engine type 1.8 GDI."

The mysterious omission after "with which the vehicle" is explained by clicking on the red heading 'To read the full list . . . ', which takes us to

https://www.acea.be/uploads/publicat...PATIBILITY.pdf

where we find "with which the vehicle was originally equipped".

The ACEA is apparently The Association of European Automobile Manufacturers, so I think we can take their word as gospel.


David.