D4 VEA 'check engine' light / EGR fault thread

[V70Gavin]

Originally Posted by Zebster

While the upgraded EGR cooler can be identified by a modification to the top rad hose, I'm pretty sure you can't tell if the intake manifold has been replaced... in fact the recall for the fire risk does not automatically result in a replacement manifold being fitted. However mine WAS (eventually) replaced, because the internal mechanism was found to be sticking. But you can put your VIN into a Volvo website to see if your car has outstanding recalls... https://www.volvocars.com/uk/own/mai...rranty/recalls or the gov.uk site where you check the MoT history also has a link for outsanding safety recalls.

More info on the fire risk recall here... https://www.volvoforums.org.uk/showthread.php?t=296328

All clear on the recall front having put my VIN in. Which is good in some ways but also means I am no closer finding the cause of the EGR "twitch".

I wonder if it is the EGR is blocked and so the valve can't close properly. So the actuator cycles to try and get back to fully closed.

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by V70Gavin

All clear on the recall front having put my VIN in. Which is good in some ways but also means I am no closer finding the cause of the EGR "twitch".

I wonder if it is the EGR is blocked and so the valve can't close properly. So the actuator cycles to try and get back to fully closed.

As well as a blocked EGR cooler (for the second time in my car's life!) it also suffered a sooted-up EGR valve that sometimes wouldn't close... during these episodes the power loss was extreme and very quickly escalated during a single day to render the car undriveable. It then had several ECU codes specifically relating to the resulting low MAF flow.

[V70Gavin]

Originally Posted by Zebster

As well as a blocked EGR cooler (for the second time in my car's life!) it also suffered a sooted-up EGR valve that sometimes wouldn't close... during these episodes the power loss was extreme and very quickly escalated during a single day to render the car undriveable. It then had several ECU codes specifically relating to the resulting low MAF flow.

Hmm, that is not what I am experiencing. So maybe it is not so bad in my case, or something else entirely. Maybe a software problem that is driving the EGR to misbehave

It has been like it for some weeks (although getting very little use at the moment). Rev drops at idle (about once every 15-20 secs, sounds as though it will stall but then catches itself), easy to stall when driving off, jerky to drive at low revs but once thoroughly warmed up it is fine. Looks to me as though the EGR is opening at idle putting crap into the engine causing the rev drop before it closes again and the engine recovers.

Will keep head scratching.

[V70Gavin]

Originally Posted by V70Gavin

Hmm, that is not what I am experiencing. So maybe it is not so bad in my case, or something else entirely. Maybe a software problem that is driving the EGR to misbehave

It has been like it for some weeks (although getting very little use at the moment). Rev drops at idle (about once every 15-20 secs, sounds as though it will stall but then catches itself), easy to stall when driving off, jerky to drive at low revs but once thoroughly warmed up it is fine. Looks to me as though the EGR is opening at idle putting crap into the engine causing the rev drop before it closes again and the engine recovers.

Will keep head scratching.

Have found another thread that describes similar symptoms to mine and the solution appeared to be clearing a blocked EMAP pipe. Any ideas where the pipe is and how to check/clean it?

[Zebster]

Originally Posted by V70Gavin

Have found another thread that describes similar symptoms to mine and the solution appeared to be clearing a blocked EMAP pipe. Any ideas where the pipe is and how to check/clean it?

It comes off the exhaust manifold with a sensor at the other end. I did contribute to a post somewhere on the forum where someone cleaned that pipe using caustic soda, but apparently it took days and the guy didn't recommend it! EMAP (and TMAP) sensors were both supposed to be cleaned during the 'intake manifold fire risk' recall check, so you'd hope they'd have spotted any pipe blockage?

[V70Gavin]

Apologies for the number of posts but this is taking some working through.

So, thanks to piotrek, I have used Car Scanner ELM to do some more investigating.

Firstly the PTC codes:

P0407(77)
OBDII: Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve position sensor B - low input
============2==============
P2413(00)
OBDII: Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system - performance problem
============3==============
P0405(00)
OBDII: Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve position sensor A - low input
============4==============
P0472(00)
OBDII: Exhaust gas pressure sensor - low input
============5==============
P0103(00)
OBDII: Mass air flow (MAF) sensor/volume air flow (VAF) sensor - high input
============6==============
P0113(00)
OBDII: Intake air temperature (IAT) sensor - high input
============7==============
P00BC(00)
OBDII: Mass air flow (MAF) sensor A - circuit range/performance
============8==============
P2413
OBDII: Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system - performance problem


Quite a list but none are causing a engine management light (yet). Not sure what they are all telling me as yet but certainly quite a list and a number related to the EGR but before committing a lot of money (even with Volvo goodwill) I want to be sure.

Next up some screenshots of sensors.....

[V70Gavin]

Some images of what the EGR is doing at idle = Thumbnail 1. You can see the EGR duty (which I understand as the demand signal) jumping around (why - what is causing it to want to do that?) and the error jumping around too (presumably the EGR can't actually move to the demanded position?).

Same sort of thing at around 2500rpm = Thumbnail 2.

Next up EMAP/MAF/MAP....

[V70Gavin]

And here are some EMAP and MAP (Thumbnail 1) and MAF and MAP (Thumbnail 2 taken at around 2500rpm) pictures.

You can see the spikes as the EGR plays around. The readings seem normal and outside of the "twitches" are relatively steady.

Or is the EMAP/MAP/MAF playing around causing the EGR movement?!

[V70Gavin]

Then after a few minutes, not sure if time related or temperature related, the stuttering/hesitancy/twitching stops.

Why? Well it looks to me as if the ECU gives up on the EGR and holds it closed no matter what the rpm/load. Thumbnail 1 shows the demand and actual position remaining closed despite revving throughout. Thumbnail 2 shows (top boxes) that the EGR is remaining closed and error is consistent at 99% despite the engine being at 2501rpm.

So some kind of fault override kicks in? Hence why once up and running the car seems fine and in fact means I am not getting any EGR opening at all which might not be good for emissions but is probably good for the engine!

Any thoughts?

[Dave Can]

Hi,
I thought I'd share my recent experiences with you:
I've owned Ford Sierras and Ford Mondeos for the majority of my 30 year driving life so when my wife suggested something different as our next car, I very reluctantly agreed. We agreed to look for a Volvo V70 as we felt this car would meet our needs.
We found one that looked good in an independent car sales garage in Somerset. I traded in our slightly ropy but very reliable, 13 year old, 200K mile Mondeo (the engine was still running beautifully) for £250 and bought a 4 year old V70 SE Lux D4.
We have never known such luxury - and so many toys to play with!!!
The car came with a (non-volvo) service history though I had to chase the garage up for evidence of the most recent service. I only noticed that this was missing when I returned home 100 miles away. In the end, I received evidence (non-itemised) though I wasn't entirely sure that the service was actually genuine. I asked my local mechanic (very honest, very reliable) to give the car the once over. He found no real faults but the air filter was filthy and replaced and I had an oil and filter change to put my mind at ease. I didn't fancy getting into a legal battle with the garage that sold the car with no real proof, just a feeling - and the garage was 100 miles away.
Initial thoughts were - lovely car, safe, clean - would hopefully give us fairly trouble free motoring for the next 10+ years. I was a little disappointed with what I thought was a lack of power. The 13 year old Mondeo engine seemed to pull better in higher gears.
The car came with a 3 month warranty.
Soon after the warranty had elapsed, the dreaded engine light came on. At about this time, I also had a letter from Volvo recalling the car for an update to the software and a rerouting of hoses to prevent an unlikely but potential fire to the engine bay.
Back to my mechanic who diagnosed the engine light as a faulty EGR valve which he did a temporary fix on (clean?) and the engine light was turned off.
I also showed him the Volvo recall letter as I was slightly concerned that this might be a ploy to get cars back into a dealership to find loads of faults to fix at great expense to myself. He thought that the letter seemed genuine enough, but to be honest, with the light off, the car running well, I forgot all about it.
Then Lo and behold, a few months later, the engine light came back on. That is when I joined this forum. I spent a morning reading this thread pretty much from beginning to end and watched a few You Tube videos on what the valve does. I now consider myself a bit of an expert!!! (I'm not - any time I try any mechanics myself it always costs more money because I have to take the car back to the garage to undo my mistakes and then put the problem right - so I don't bother doing anything now!!)
I remembered the letter and contacted the dealership mentioned to book the car in for recall work. I mentioned the engine light. I asked them to take a look while doing the recall work in order for them to give me a quote on replacing the valve and the cooler which I would compare to a quote that I would ask my trusted mechanic for.
The garage Volvo dealership said that they would take a look, but there might be a chance that Volvo would agree for the work to be done at their expense!!!
So:
I took the car in yesterday.
They ran their diagnostic checks.
The problem was indeed the EGR valve and cooler.
The dealership contacted Volvo who agreed to do all of the work free of charge!
I am delighted.
The car is booked in to get everything sorted!
No dealership service history and they agree to do all of this work. It really has changed my opinion of the car industry (Volvo at least).
I will continue to get my car serviced by my regular mechanic who has been our regular mechanic for many years and has kept our Fords running mainly trouble free clocking up big miles.