Advanced driving -upside down way

[ThomasG]

I just realised that I'm looking for honey whilst sitting on a bl..y beehive..

I've got traffic police depot right next door!

Now..

Do I just walk up to the gate and ask nicely, or shall I bring pepper spray, 2 tins of baking soda and a goat named Trevor?

On the other side..

Still no answer from Lake District IAM group.

And Guildford (its not their fault, but still) made me.. angry. Just simply angry.

I could be there in 30-40 minutes, but nooo.
Apoarently my nearest group is East Surrey... And hour and half drive..

At least they are trying to be helpful, looking for observer who lives near me, or at least closer than groups base. It will be one-to-one session.

I'm guessing they don't draw much interest nowadays

[ThomasG]

Oh, bugger

Hello Tom – thanks for your contact below. Our observers are insured by iAM RoadSmart Insurance to work with the Associates that RoadSmart allocate to our group and at the same time their operating costs are paid for by the fee that RoadSmart pay us for each Associate we coach. On these grounds regrettably it wouldn't be possible for us to assign an observer to work with an associate from another group or indeed someone not yet a member of iAM RoadSmart.

When you join iAM RoadSmart and become an Advanced Driver Associate your assigned Observer will be required to observe your driving on motorways, major A roads, country roads and in town traffic all as part of the programme. Your examiner will also do likewise so I don't think you need to worry too much about availability of suitable roads as I’m sure they will have this well planned out for you in advance.

Ironically most people that live in the Lake District hate driving Cumbrian roads and prefer to head for southern Scotland (Dumfries and Galloway) and Northumberland (especially if your a biker) ... I strongly suggest you consider a holiday further north if you want to experience empty roads that go on mile after mile – its quite and experience!

Have a great time in Ravensglass in the mean time!

Kindest regards ...

[Dibble]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Roadcraft ordered

I hope not to be dissapointed

Haven't read the IAM Book but I believe it is based on Roadcraft. Thing is Thomas, you have read the books, you know the theory but the real training happens out on the road. Go in next door and ask to speak to the Traffic Sergeant, tell him what you want and I bet there is someone in that office who will help you out. Tell him/her you have been advised to do this by an ex-traffic chap.
Pity you were so far away but if you are ever likely to be up in Scotland give us a shout and I'm sure I could arrange something. I am having an On-Road course at Knockhill Racing circuit this Thursday.Chap coming along to do what you are wanting to do.

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by MikeGMT

Might be a good place to recount why I took some advanced driver training and what propelled me to do it.

I always considered I was a competent and safe driver but nothing special, lets face it we all think were good drivers, its a 'Man Thing.'

This also involved a lorry, although the driver was in noway shape or form at fault.

On of my passions is fishing, and in the summer of 2002 had been fishing on the River Trent with a friend. Packing up we set of for home around 6 pm.

Passing Lincoln we picked up the A15 which runs down to the M180. Another name for the A15 is Ermine Street, the name gives a clue as to being a old Roman Road, so is practically straight all the way to the M180, and is bordered by open farmland on both sides. However there are a few stretches with some dips and crests, also it is a designated Red Route due to the number of accidents.

Nearing RAF Scampton we came upon a curtainsider HGV and as it was a beautiful summer evening with little traffic I was content to just pootle along behind, mile after mile, just me and him.

Chatting away to my friend and we eventually reached a stretch that I knew was arrow straight with no dips where anything could hide, moving out for a look and there was nothing as far as the eye could see front or back, no road junctions or lay-by’s, no buildings or driveways so decided to overtake. Just drawing level with the rear wheels of the trailer and maybe 800yds. or so ahead a Honda CRV appears heading our way, it was far enough away that I didn’t have to brake, just eased of the gas and dropped back behind the trailer, probably seems more dramatic than it really was. Honda driver must have feared the worst though as they drove onto the grass verge.

Of course these things pray on your mind and when I got home tried to analyse what had happened, could have been a nasty accident or worse, and at the least I had forced another driver to take avoiding action although it wasn’t necessary, although they weren’t to know that I would abort the overtake. More than likely they were locals and had seen it all before.

I think what had happened was the Honda had driven down a track in the field. Reaching the main road they had seen the arctic coming and had plenty of time to pull out but they wouldn’t see me on the blindside off the lorry as I prepared to pass, and I didn’t see them arrive at the main road as I was blindside. First we saw of each other was when the Honda pulled out and turned towards us.

Always expect the unexpected.

Giving it a little bit of thought...

From one point of view- nothing unusual.

From another..

Why was Honda driver scared, as he apparently was?
How many he saw before, forcing the overtake?

Says something about driving standards...

Quite a number of times I saw, and eventually learnded to do similar, truckers giving indicator signals. Mostly on the continent, but few here, too.

Seeing a car or another lorry preparing for overtake, being aware that the view to the front is limited for them- they will indicate.
Two flashes to the middle of the road- "don't go, there's something in front"
Two flashes to verge- "clear, go ahead".


Interestingly, half of this (flashing towards the verge) is mentioned in "advanced driver"

Your lorry driver could have given you such warning.
It doesn't mean he was obliged to, of course.

I do it almost exclusively on " left hand drive" roads, and almost exclusively if I see in the rearview that overtaker dons UK reg plate. He can't see. He may use some help, no?

The times I drive there aren't accidental. Its normally first or second day after daughter finishes school term. Its Christmas. It resembles "lemming run". There's so many.
Many times I was part of "convoy" of UK registered cars, driving abroad.
Especially by the end of journey, after being done with motorways, dual lanes, and going onto rural, twisted, sigle-laners.
To some degree (trust buffer) I have to rely on others, and I'm aware they may be relying on me.


But the main point I can see in your story is:

Why did that Honda driver emerge onto main road in the first place?
Why has he done so with view obstructed by lorry?

I can't say I see your fault in it at all. You were ready, you executed, you abandoned the manoeuvre when it became too dangerous.

But most of all- I can bet that at any given moment you knew what's happening, and you were prepared.

[ThomasG]

Hmmm...

In my searches I've found something..

Interesting.

2 Apr 2012 · '10 and 2' no longer safe way to hold steering wheel. Both hands should be placed out of the steering wheel on opposite sides. Your grip should be firm, yet gentle. Use your fingers instead of the palms of your hands and keep your thumbs up along the face of the steering wheel. Never turn the wheel while gripping it .

Source (content not available without VPN)

https://www.seattlepi.com/local/tran...ng-3453234.php

And this:

...it’s no longer ideal to hold your steering wheel at “10 and 2.” According to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, in a crash you could seriously injure your hands by driving in this position.

Blame airbags, says NBC News, in a 2012 report...

Source:
https://lifehacker.com/the-way-you-h...1830984310/amp

Apparently Texas state was first to issue this.

I'm yet to find that proper documentation, as yet I take it very lightly- there's loads of webpages that will give improper information just to bring more views.

[ThomasG]

Found something.

Almost precisely what I'm after.

Almost, because... Its mere 24 hours drive (each way) from home...

Otherwise I'd be booking it now.

So- still on the search for something like that, but somewhat closer

Translation done by me, sorry for mistakes.



Course 1:

Skid control.

1 day(5 hours)

Main focus- increase drivers awareness of cars behaviour in most common accidents on slippery surfaces, incorporate it as a "learned reflex" into common behaviour of the driver.

Within course:
1 meal
Certificate of training.

1: position behind wheel. Compromising comfort vs ability to steer quickly and effecively.

2: wheel operations. Basic rules relating to quick, safe, and smooth steering inputs. Steering inputs and timings of these, on slippery surfaces. "Get down to the ground" for so (self)called "great drivers".

3: Turn (yaw) dynamics. Throttle vs steering wheel coordination. Adding grip to front axis by easing off the throttle. Correct ways of changing course (overtaking, avoiding pedestrians, lane change etc) on slippery surfaces.

4 braking on straight. Dynamics of braking on slippery surfaces.

5: driving in curve on slippery surface. Dynamics.

6: braking in turn. Forces acting on car during turn, during braking, during both turning and braking. Oversteer and under steer. Choosing correct trajectory for car. Dangers of braking with ABS. Ways of braking without ABS.

7: braking while avoiding obstacle (pedestrian) on slippery surface. Early decisions regarding trajectory. Incorporating reflexes regarding to correct steering wheel-throttle-brakes coordination.

8: reactions for skid of rear axis. Good ways, bad ways. Methods of avoiding skids and methods of inducing skids. When " drift" is a good thing and when not. Methods of coming out from skid (regaining grip). How quickly and how far to steer.


https://youtu.be/G3loqOgOKdw

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...76864962001143

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...76785179064142

https://youtu.be/1i0YD7V0LlU



Course 2

First degree of advanced driving.
Designed primarily for those who completed course 1(skid control)


Practical (in-car) teachings regarding driving in difficult conditions. Bettering control and feel of the car.

Included:
1 meal
Certificate on completion.

1: slalom. Basic version to incorporate as a reflex correct coordination steering throttle. Advanced slalom with induced oversteer skid.

2: honing obstacle avoidance.
Cursants are told on which side to avoid the obstacle by instructor. Instructor may be seated in front, but is mostly in the back seat and indicates direction by hand- to induce reflex of checking mirrors before committing to manoeuvre.

3: braking on straight. Dynamics of braking on various surfaces. Introduction and explanation of ESP and ABS during "emergency escape" (deliberate steering off the road/into roadside or even ditch)

4: EDU DRIFT. Honing drift and skid control. Inducing, maintaining and breaking skid.

5: drive on a curve, slippery surface. Understeer and oversteer. Honing skill.

6: 90 and 180 degree turns. Rules regarding handbrake use in critical situations.

7: honing 180 degree turns (J-turn)

8: test. Obstacle course. All at once.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3lo...ature=youtu.be



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=450G...ature=youtu.be

Course 3

Second degree advanced driving.

As before- control and feel of car, critically bad conditions, slippery etc.

Meal+ certificate.

I : obstacle avoidance on declining road.

Obstacle set beyond summit of a hill, approaching driver cannot see its placement.

II: honing car turns.

1: J-turns

2: 360 degrees "Aaltonen"

Recognised as effective way of controlling large skids/regaining grip.

III: EDU DRIFT

Honing skid control.

IV:
1: honing skills on obstacle course, time trials of obstacle course.

2: end test: time trial on obstacle course

[ThomasG]

A car roll over simulator

I wonder what made them choose this model..

[S60RDesign]

I genuinely believe one of the best ways to improve your skills and anticipation is to get involved in racing, whether that's a karting series at your local track or classic cars. You'll learn how to control a car in different conditions and the increased sharpness and anticipation is also transferrable to the road. Sim racing is also very useful and a lot cheaper, you may be surprised by the extent a good sim correlates to real life driving. Both are a lot of fun.

I've been to skidpan events a few times and also been in specially adapted skidcars, I know plenty of people find them useful but personally I've found them tame and frankly a dour experience, they were approached from the angle that driving is a dangerous chore and I can't say I learnt anything new over the more enjoyable racing I've done.

[S60RDesign]

Originally Posted by ThomasG

For myself I call that area "driver paradise".Especially Crumrock water to Keswick, approaches to other lakes...

That's a lot of fun, I love the twists and crests of the Borrowdale section in particular. If the roads are clear I love driving in the Lakes

[ThomasG]

So..

I'm trying out some "new" ways.

With so-so results.

I raised my seat. Can't say that the dazzle from oncoming "angel eyes" is any lesser, but never mind.
I raised this seat to force myself to hold the wheel higher.
And I can't say I like it.
For one thing- now it isn't that easy to make a tight, slow corner I used to do with one hand.
Picky ones: please notice I said slow corners! I'm talking parking lots, I'm talking right angle turn (left) in city conditions.

Its OK for longer curves, but not much difference to what I was doing before.
There is another side effect, though. As I'm sitting higher, I can feel cars body roll and all the bumps in the road more.

I can't say I like it, but I can't say its a bad thing either.
For one thing- I feel less comfortable driving.
For the other- it gets me to try harder to drive in a smooth way. Good for passengers. If I can't feel it sitting higher- then passenger won't even notice as he/she is sitting lower.


I had a reply from local IAM group.
Essentially I'm invited for a free taster/assessment, on any first Sunday of the month.
I'm not sure can I make it on the 10th of February, so it may end up being March, but hey- you never know.

This also makes me rethink my approach to that traffic police depot thing.
I simply think that I will leave that until after I had that free session with IAM.
I'll take observers information/feedback in, and then approach police for further one.
If still needed. You never know.


S60R:

Yes, I was thinking about racing training, even carts. Of course not with the aim to become racer, but to get better feel of surface, physics, behaviour.. You know what I mean.

Even that training I pointed out few posts above is conducted by none else but a rally driver himself. Him and his pupils from racing world.

But life is life.
I have no racing circuits nearby. That is - closer than few hours drive.
I think there may be some carting ground closer, I will yet check, but without much hope. Its London. It will be small and expensive.

Now.. You mentioned something that I choose to avoid until someone else brings it in.. Thank you.
Sims.

For whatever its worth- mine was .. Let's call it "requirement for velocity" (to avoid mentioning proper name- I think this one is close enough).
Absolutely unrealistic thing.
Literally unable to wreck the car- hit the wall head on at 200mph, drive away.
No pedestrians. Etc and so on.
A rough, very rough imitation of cars behaviour. Not good enough to be of practical use.
But..
These races were taking places in cities. With traffic on the road.
And when you hit one- no, you didn't wreck. You were loosing speed. You were loosing time.
So you didn't want to hit..

Motorway runs.. Or city runs. Car in left-most lane takes 90 degree, sharp, turn right. And you're just behind, charging.

One and only thing of any value that one game gave me:
Observation. Reaction time.

Which also reminds me that I haven't played for some years now Not since I flushed Windows down the toilet and started using Linux..

Hmmm.. Find some time..


Anyway.

I was kind of hoping that more people would be involved in this by now.
I don't do it exclusively for my benefit (I mean writing, asking, etc).
If I was- I'd put this thread in the Lounge section. Posdibly it would have more participants. But I wanted forum "guests" to have access also. Possibly make few of guests register and have their say? Come on- you know you want to

I can't say it doesn't work for me- I learned a lot.

And thank you all for that.

But nevertheless, I don't know when I will add another post.

I said most of what I had to say. I'm learning still.
Maybe if I will notice something of value.

Otherwise- over to you.