P155ed Off in a big way

[MacXC60T5]

OK so I know we all get brassed off when we get done with speed cameras and want to blame all others. Just got done on a road A45 Coventry Ryton Bridge @ 56 mph in a 50. My fault as I thought it was still 60. My point, which I think is very valid, If the speed limit is 70 or 50 or 40 or 30 why can't these be the factual speed limits and not all this crap about % allowances. If you do 72 you get booked. If you drink and Drive there is a fixed limit if you exceed that limit you get convicted for drink and drive. Why not now do the same for speed limits and accept that the 10% rule does not exist. If you go over the limit you get done. Pigs may fly!!!!!

[I Feel Old]

Originally Posted by MacXC60T5

...and accept that the 10% rule does not exist.

What's stopping you accepting that? Who forced you to apply some arbitrary margin? Believing too much of what is written online?

Truth is I'd be pi55sed too if I was done for 56 in a 50, but I'd be pi55sed at myself.

[Zebster]

Actually, there IS an applied tolerance for police breath testing results: "Although the legal limit is 35 microgrammes of alcohol in 100 millilitres of breath, suspects with breath test readings between 36 & below 40 should be released with caution or without charge. This is because the standard prosecution limit is 40."... https://www.drinkdriving.org/police_...evidential.php

[I-S]

Originally Posted by MacXC60T5

If you drink and Drive there is a fixed limit if you exceed that limit you get convicted for drink and drive.

Yes... and no. The legal limit is 35ug per 100ml of breath. However, if you blow 40ug at the roadside there is no realistic prospect of you being convicted of drink driving - they know that by the time they get you back to the station and blow into the evidential machine (at least 30 minutes after the roadside check) you'll be below 35. So, although the legal limit is 35ug per 100ml the rule of thumb that police officers use is that they won't pull you into the station and book you unless you blow over 50 at the roadside so they know they've got a good chance of getting you over 35 on the evidential machine at the station.

Why not now do the same for speed limits and accept that the 10% rule does not exist. If you go over the limit you get done. Pigs may fly!!!!!

Because there are too many accuracy issues involved. As a criminal conviction the police must prove that you were speeding beyond reasonable doubt. If they turn up to court and say that you were caught speeding doing 30.01 miles per hour in a 30 limit it doesn't take a genius to ask what the bounds of accuracy of their equipment are - 99%? Let's say so, which means that 30.01 miles per hour on their equipment could mean 29.71mph. That's under 30mph so then you weren't speeding.

There are too many possible inaccuracies in the system (the radar detector, the timing between photographs, the distance between the lines on the road, reference points on your vehicle, etc). Let's say each of these things is subject to a 2% error, then stacking up 4 2% errors means there's a potential error of 8.24%.

So, the police took a pragmatic approach with the 10% + 2 (which btw, is not a rule - it is the ACPO guideline). This gives a large enough margin that serves two purposes:

1) It doesn't unduly and unecessarily brutalise the general motoring population for making a mistake and slipping up to 31-32mph in a 30 limit.

2) It saves a HUGE amount of police time and resource in not going to court and battling cases of small margins that are not necessarily beyond reasonable doubt - by limiting prosecution to cases that are already well beyond reasonable doubt a lot of time and resource are saved.

[MacXC60T5]

Thanks for the comments. The information on Drink Driving is very new to me as I was not fully aware of the limit and use.
Regarding speeding, Have the rules for limits changed for the cameras on the motorway gantries. I am led to believe that 70 on the motorway in certain areas is 70 without any allowance. I could have got this wrong or it could just be fake news.

[I Feel Old]

Just don't be trying those alcohol limits north of the border.

[SwissXC90]

Here in Switzerland the very many speed cameras will flash you when you go ove the limit + a tolerance value. Tolerance is 2kmph for laser based cameras and 5kmph for older cameras.
And ticket amounts are 40,100,300 Swiss Francs, in those increments.
Which is 31, 78, 234 GBP.
Add to that the tolerance in the car’s speedo, where it can be over by 8% and you can drive indicated 58 in a 50 zone before you get flashed.

So it pays to know the real speed of your car (not the speedo speed, but the real gps speed) and then set cruise control accordingly.

Tip:
The CFE shows real speed, and it lower that indicated speed.

[phil1968]

Originally Posted by MacXC60T5

I am led to believe that 70 on the motorway in certain areas is 70 without any allowance. I could have got this wrong or it could just be fake news.

Fake news. Speedos generally over read by 2 to 3 mph, I drive 30,000 miles a year for my job & stick to speed limits but set the cruise control 2 to 3 mph over the limit; that goes for average speed camera sections through motorways & past fixed speed cameras, not been done for speeding yet. To be done for 56 in a 50 you had a speedo indication of about 59. Unfortunate that you got done & you only have yourself to blame but I agree there should be nationwide consistency in the set limits for prosecution, but then it's the same in all aspects of law, lack of consistency

[BlueRebel]

Originally Posted by SwissXC90

Here in Switzerland the very many speed cameras will flash you when you go ove the limit + a tolerance value. Tolerance is 2kmph for laser based cameras and 5kmph for older cameras.
And ticket amounts are 40,100,300 Swiss Francs, in those increments.
Which is 31, 78, 234 GBP.
Add to that the tolerance in the car’s speedo, where it can be over by 8% and you can drive indicated 58 in a 50 zone before you get flashed.

So it pays to know the real speed of your car (not the speedo speed, but the real gps speed) and then set cruise control accordingly.

Tip:
The CFE shows real speed, and it lower that indicated speed.

What's CFE?
How to find out your real GPS speed?

[green van man]

Originally Posted by BlueRebel

What's CFE?
How to find out your real GPS speed?

No idea about CFE but GPS speed is easy, use a garmin sat nav.

Because I changed the tyre size on my landrover from 70 to 85 aspect ratio I knew the speedo would not conform to its previous tolerances, connected sat nav and took a drive up the road, speedo has now has NO tolerances, 30 is 30 so I make sure I'm doing an indicated 28.
Volvo is 2 mph below indicated and van 4 mph below indicated.
All confirmed by 2 garmin sat nav.

Other sat nav may give GPS speed, I only have experiance of garmin.

Paul.