just broke down :( engine won't run

[Glen Morangie]

Originally Posted by stinky

I could do with checking the cam timing and I'm used to doing this by turning the wheels whilst in gear but this is the first automatic I've owned, can I still do that?

I'm fed up with having a broken Volvo

Err no, the wheels won't turn the engine because of the torque converter, you can do it with a spanner (24mm IIRC) on the crank pulley or by hand if you take the plugs out.

It is a bind having a non running automatic, you can't tow it either - I've had to abandon mine a couple of times lately. All I can add is check your fuel pump relay again - it looks like that has been the cause of my problems, even though there seemed to be more than one problem.

Have you tried wiring across the FP relay contacts to absolutely eliminate it? Also from what you've said the only thing you haven't tested is the ignition amplifier module - the test voltages are in one of the greenbooks, and I think (although I might be mistaken) it get's it's earth on the earth 'block' down on the inner wing, behind the airbox - have you checked this is OK?

The only other thing which comes to mind is the dreaded crumbly wiring - I don't know how much 700's were affected by this, 240's were from around 1986 to mid 1988 was your car made then?

[rogerthechorister]

It can't be FP relay or fuel filter because there is a good squirt of fuel out of the fuel filter if the pipe is disconnected - but the K-tronic needs 5 bar. Are you getting 5 bar (over 70 psi)? Have you run wires directly from the battery to the main fuel pump? Have you checked the tank and main fuel pumps as per black Haynes manual paragraphs 13 and 14?

I'm not sure whether we have really eliminated spark issues. Will someone lend this man 6 spark sensors, one for each cylinder? Then the spark can be monitored during the "almost running" phase before the engine totally dies. If the spark peters out and then the engine stops - ignition problem, so the dreaded K-tronic is likely OK.

If however the spark is healthy from the turning of the starter until the engine absolutely dies, then the problem HAS to be fuel. The following MAY help eliminating things

The next step then is a gallon can of petrol, and an electric SU fuel pump (tha works) from an old morris minor (or preferably something more butch as the K-tronic needs 5 bar, says the manual). Take fuel line from the outlet side of fuel filter, and extend it to the morris minor fuel pump. Blank off the outlet side of the volvo fuel filter. Take another piece of fuel line and run it from the morris minor pump into the gallon of petrol. Put morris minor pump on ground at least 6 feet away from fuel tank and cover with blanket - stray sparks may be dangerous... Connect wires to terminals of SU fuel pump. Connect other ends to known 12v supply (eg battery). You should hear the SU go click-click-click-click as it raises fuel up the pipe. It will stop clicking when it stops lifting fuel and the fuel system to the K-tronic is now pressurised.

Go to driver seat and start engine. If all OK - it's the fuel delivery system to the K-tronic. If you hear the SU clicking furiously, and the engine dies gradually, the SU needs to be bigger. If no joy and no change you are now 99% sure it's the K-tronic system. I suspect you now look for a scrap Renault 25 or Alpine if there are any on the island.

To be honest I'm suspecting that the cold start and hot start delivery systems are delivering fuel, but that the normal constant injection part of the system is at fault. Sections 32 to 34 of the Black Haynes manual provide detailed instructions for you to test dismantle and refurbish this system in its entirety.

Paragraphs 33.5 to .14 deal with testing the cold start injector. You need an assistant and a stop watch, so I suspect you have not tried these. They also deal with the impulse relay.

Paragraphs 33.15 to .21 deal with the air-fuel control unit. You say most tests have been electrical and these aren't so maybe you haven't tried these.

Paragraphs 33.22 to .29 deal with the line, control, and resting pressures. You need a pressure guage, a swithchable T-piece, and lots of pipes and unions. The manual suggests going to a Volvo dealer or fuel injection specialist. Anywhere that can maintain diesel injectors eg on tractors, if they can read and will follow the manual, should be able to do it.

Paragraphs 33.30, .31, .32 and .33 deal with the two different types of air control valve. These do need a bit of wiring, but no meters, so maybe you have not done these.

Paragraphs 33.34 to 33.41 and figure 3.46 deal with the injectors themselves. You haven't mentiond pfaffing about with glass measuring tubes so you probably haven't done these bits. But the chance of all 6 injectors going duff at the same time must surely be unlikely. The manual doesn't say what to do if the problem is found to be the fuel distributor.

Paragraph 33.42 tells you about adjusting the line pressure regulator and is discouraging!

Pargraph 34.1 to .25 tells youhow to remove and replace the lot which is only much use if you have spares available!

Paragraph 35.1 to .11 tells you how to overhaul the injection control unit. No electrics here.

You say you have the manuals, so I don't need to scan and email the pages - but it looks to ME as if these sections are likely to have the answer. Somewhere.

Keep at it and we'll keep encouraging you.

[stinky]

that's a lot of very good advice guys; many, many thanks, I really appreciate it.

I will take my time now and try what you have said along with some other theories I need to look at.

I forgot to mention that I put a meter on the Ignition module and tested it according to the info I had and it passed, except for a poor earth, so...
I went and cleaned up and reconnected all the car earths. It didn't fix the problem but I suppose it was worth a go and it will be a good thing to have once I get the car running again.

I'm almost certain it's not the pumps as I've checked and they are both pumping.

My car has terrible crumbly wiring, but I've been patching them up (I should replace them really) and they seem OK.

Roger:
The pressure looks good but I'll see if I can get a gauge to test it.

"To be honest I'm suspecting that the cold start and hot start delivery systems are delivering fuel, but that the normal constant injection part of the system is at fault."
That fits very well with my problem, especially as that system supplies fuel indirectly for a few seconds then shuts off, so I will test it more thoroughly.

thank you very much for detailing the different items in the haynes manual; I'll gather my tools and get to work.

Thanks for the encouragement

[stinky]

I've just seen something strange in the manual:

Resistance test on the rotor arm 5000 - 6000 Ohms

This is exciting: I hadn't seen this before but I have tested the rotor arm's resistance and it was pretty much 0

I have an old rotor arm (came with the car) and I was going to swap it for the current one (just to try it) but before I did I checked the resistance to make sure that it worked and I was surprised to see resistance on the rotor, I cleaned it up and tried it again and still resistance so I ditched it and put the current one back in which tested 0.
My theory at the time was that 0 resistance = good spark. + visually it looked fine.

Here's the thing; whenever I describe the problem to someone I mention the fact that it is exactly the same as when I once had a rotor arm break on a car!!!

So I will try this later today; it kind of seems like a long shot and I can't understand why the rotor arm is supposed to have 5000 Ohms of resistance, but there you go. Fingers crossed.

[James A]

Worth a punt, as sometimes the most baffling car faults are caused by the simplest things

[MTerry]

The cat has been blocked on two of may cars (Volvo included). What happens is that it will run rough for a few seconds and die, and if you toch the gas AT ALL, it will instantly quit. Try cranking the starter. Sometimes you can hear the junk in the cat rattling under the floor as the engine tries to get throught the blockage.

[stinky]

Grrr, not the rotor arm the current one is OK the old one is dead.

Oh well back to the other tests.

Cheers MTerry; I've seen that happen so I know what you mean. Usually very worth checking but the UK model of my car has no cat. Thanks though the advice is appreciated.

[rogerthechorister]

Stinky have you got or can you get those little yellow stick things that you put between the spark plugs and the HT lead to test the spark? Usually called "Spark testers".

They would surely give you the definitive answer whether you had an OK spark.

You can use an electronic timing light in stead of one.

Another toy that would let you see if you had sparks, and might tell you something about combustion and so mixtures would be a colourtune - spark plugs with transparent cores so you can actually look into the combustion chamber and see what colour flame you have got in there - no flame means either no fuel or no spark, yellow = rich, blue = about right, white = weak. Not sure if you can see a spark alone.

Any of these is only going to cost you about a tenner or a bit more off ebay or by mail order from Halfrauds.

[stinky]

Hi Roger,
I've asked around and it looks like no-one on the Island has any spark testers, but I've seen some on-line at £2 each so I'll invest in half a dozen of them. I used to have a colortune and I've kicked myself for not having it now.

I'm only getting opportunity to work on the car for 2 hours or so every-other-day so it's slow but I'm moving forward.

Today I've been looking at the fuel system again and I found something interesting. I'm just about to try and look this up.
I took the K jetronic fuel return line off of the fuel distributor and tried some tests:
I can blow down it(not recommended) and can increase the air pressure in the fuel tank or with the fuel cap off I can blow bubbles in the fuel tank. So this is a very crude test but I reckon the return line isn't blocked, but here's the thing:
I started the car with the return line disconnected; I ran some rubber hose from the outlet to a jam jar and the jam jar filled with fuel in just a few seconds of running.
It seems to be trying to return nearly all the fuel. Isn't the fuel return supposed to only return excess fuel?

[LankyTim]

Originally Posted by stinky

Hi Roger,
I've asked around and it looks like no-one on the Island has any spark testers, but I've seen some on-line at £2 each so I'll invest in half a dozen of them. I used to have a colortune and I've kicked myself for not having it now.

I'm only getting opportunity to work on the car for 2 hours or so every-other-day so it's slow but I'm moving forward.

Today I've been looking at the fuel system again and I found something interesting. I'm just about to try and look this up.
I took the K jetronic fuel return line off of the fuel distributor and tried some tests:
I can blow down it(not recommended) and can increase the air pressure in the fuel tank or with the fuel cap off I can blow bubbles in the fuel tank. So this is a very crude test but I reckon the return line isn't blocked, but here's the thing:
I started the car with the return line disconnected; I ran some rubber hose from the outlet to a jam jar and the jam jar filled with fuel in just a few seconds of running.
It seems to be trying to return nearly all the fuel. Isn't the fuel return supposed to only return excess fuel?

Yes, excess fuel is returned but at idle most of the fuel is returned to the tank.