20mph zones kill more people than 30mph

[volvoid]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-came-in.html

It must be true, its in the wail.
Seems that pedestrians aren't using the green cross code. I blame Charles Darwin, none of this would have happened if he hadn't invented natural selection.
Enschallah

[john.wigley]

Originally Posted by volvoid

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...t-came-in.html

It must be true, its in the wail.
Seems that pedestrians aren't using the green cross code. I blame Charles Darwin, none of this would have happened if he hadn't invented natural selection.
Enschallah

It was also featured on Radio 4's 'Today' programme earlier this morning, 'volvoid'. They said much the same thing; pedestrians and cyclists are apparently taking less care in 20 MPH zones because - paradoxically - they feel safer! Funny old world, isn't it?

Regards, John.

[tt82]

So going faster saves lives! Will have to remember that one the next time the old bill pull me over!

[Simon Jones]

There's a danger of conflating two different issues: the consequences of a collision vs. the chances of it happening. There's no doubt that a collision at 20 mph with car and pedestrian/cyclist is considerably less likely to result in death or serious injury than at 30 mph. However if there are more pedestrians/cyclists getting in the path of a vehicle (even at 20 mph), then clearly the risk of an event happening is much higher & therefore it is no surprise if more people get injured.

[derek vivian]

Far better in my view to rack up the 'on the spot' fines for exceeding the speed limit wherever it is. A minimum fine of at least £1,000 should make drivers pay more attention to their speed at all times. I find I am looking, or glancing, at my easy to see speedometer in my 1997 V90 every few seconds. I have been driving 50 years and never had any speed tickets. For over 30 years I have had jobs which took me all over the South East and never was late for appointments. If I can do it... So it is down to drivers to obey the law at all times. It is a criminal offence to exceed a statutory speed limit!

[DaveNP]

Whilst an increase in casualties in the first year is worrying I wouldn't say it's conclusive proof that '20mph is more dangerous that 30mph'.
There's not a lot of detail in the report but it does say that the increase occurred in half of the 20mph areas, in some areas there was a decrease, with a small sample size (I can't imagine that there were more than 20 new 20mph areas) the randomness of accident rates would plausibly explain all of that. Even if they had made no changes to the speed limits in a small sample comparing one calendar year to another I would expect some to show more accidents, some less and some about the same.
I can't be bothered digging for the stats to argue with the daily Wail but I'd want to see a more comprehensive study over a lot more sites and over a few years before leaping to any conclusions or extrapolating results and assigning blame to overconfident pedestrians.

[owyn]

It's come out on several news sources and it appears that a 20 limit on its own increases the number and severity of incidents. If they are used in conjunction with other traffic calming measures then the same measure improves.
Very interesting and maybe opens up the 'any speed is bad' debate a bit more.

I have a personal theory that if a speed limit is grossly disproportionate then it gets less respect so people break it and drive at whatever speed they want.
Similar to the push towards lowering 60 limits to 50 because it's a popular motorbike road where deaths occur at 130.

[XC70Bob]

There is a school near me that has a manned crossing point, that's in a 30mph zone that already has traffic calming measures.
Now there used to be 2 signs with flashing yellow lights that were activated when ever the crossing point was manned that reduced the speed limit to 20mph most people took notice because the lights were flashing and reduced their speed, now the signs have been replaced with permanent 20mph signs making it a 20mph zone 24/7 now most people just ignore the 20mph zone as it just a short zone just outside the school, less than 50yds long were as the old 20mph zone covered almost the entire length of the road.
I think the use of 20mph zones has its place, but I think in some cases a temporary speed restriction at appropriate times is more effective.

[canis]

I consider myself both a pedestrian as well as a driver. From the perspective of a pedestrian, it's really frustrating having to wait at the side of the road for a car to crawl towards you. If it just got on with it and went past, crossing the road would be easier. Slowing the traffic down, does (I believe) make crossing it more difficult. From a driver's perspective, traffic gapped at 30mph, slowed down to 20mph, makes junctions truly painful.

There's also misconceptions. I've known non-drivers presume a large speed hump (with big it's white triangles and block paving) is equivalent to a zebra crossing, which is of course not true. A child might easily make such a mistake, having no prerequisite traffic knowledge. Particularly if it's located at a pedestrian thoroughfare.

There's an awful lot of white paint on the roads these days. It's probably very confusing for non-drivers.

I recently stumbled into a town centre which had no road markings at all, nor any signs. No traffic control, no right of way for anyone. The uncluttered look and feel of the place was truly blissful, and it certainly made me drive with acute awareness.

[christheancient]

Originally Posted by canis

I recently stumbled into a town centre which had no road markings at all, nor any signs. No traffic control, no right of way for anyone. The uncluttered look and feel of the place was truly blissful, and it certainly made me drive with acute awareness.

IIRC... Common In Holland? Called 'woonerhaven' or something similar?

And I think I remember some trials on a similar vein in this country. Where did you fine them, Canis?