19T turbo?

[foggyjames]

I think the best way to approach turbo sizing is to fit the smallest possible turbo which will fulfil your requirements. The only reasons to go for an unnecessarily large turbo are a) pose-factor, and b) cost - truck turbos are CHEAP! The trade-off is generally slow spool-up. Sure the turbo is capable of huge power, but are you using that potential?

Most modern turbocharged production cars use what could be fairly described as an 'undersized' turbo - together with the clever VVT stuff, that's how the new T5s make peak torque starting at 1500rpm or whatever. The T5 series with the TD04-family turbos are no exception to this 'undersized' rule. Even the 19T is still a 'small' turbo - hence why it can be made to spool at such low engine speeds. Poor tuning can spoil this effect to an extent, but fundamentally it's down to fluid dynamics!

The 19T being 'small' is great news for a 'daily driver' road-car. It means the car delivers effortless lazy power from low engine speeds, making for what the manufacturers would probably call a "flexible" engine. I don't know how a 19T behaves on a T5 lump, however, it's very common for turbos which are a bit on the small side (I'm really thinking of the new S40/V50 T5s, and the ST motors) to run out of puff (and more to the point, the efficiency band of the turbo) under heavy load and high engine speed.

Here are a few 'bottom line' bullet points, as far as I'm concerned.

# The 19T makes for an excellent 'daily-driver' turbo...but so does the 18T - they're nearly identical, and I believe the 18T is much cheaper to install. There's nothing wrong with the TD04 series in the right application, and I may well end up using an 18T on my 360.

# The T28 is not some sort of monster turbo. I'm not sure of exactly how large it is in relation to a 19T, but it's still a baby compared to the sort of turbo you'd fit if you were going for more serious power. There are almost certainly numerous other turbos which are easy to install, and fit into this category of being 'undersized', so good for everyday usage. Swings and roundabouts.

# If you're going to spend serious dollar on a turbo installation, the smart money seems to be on a Garrett GT-series unit. The range is so huge there's a model for almost every application. Garrett are the masters, and the GT series is the latest evolution of a line which can be traced back ~30 years.

cheers

James

[adieu]

OK just thought i'd chuck my 2 pence worth in....

My car was the 1st in the UK to run a T28 Hybrid. This turbo has perfomed well for the last 2 years with no problems at all. As for holding boost, it willl hold well over the white line (factory fit boost gauage)all the way to the redline. It ran for over a year with no dump valve and has now run for a year with 1 fitted (no diffrence in performance). Please don't ask me the boost lvl as i don't know it was set at 1.1bar but i twiddled the setting some and should think it is now around 1.2.

If your thinking of an upgrade i would recommend the T28 from Turbo technics as a great buy. I beleive Turbo Technics can now provide the turbo with all the bits you would need to install it yourself.

Regards

Iain

[Lance BLACK V70 T5]

Originally Posted by bobcat

really lance??? they replaced your turbo with a complete 19t!!!

do these quotes sound familiar:

"Glad you like it Lance. This is with a standard 2.5" Volvo downpipe too!!!"

"I also would like to say thanks to the Big man himself J for convincing me the 19T hybrid was the route to go,"

please dont try and insult me lance, you have posted many times before about your hybrid, or im my terms "half baked" 19t.

I look forward to your reply lance.

Thanks
Matt.

What Im saying is no old parts from my original turbo were used, yes its a hybrid turbo, but using original parts from my original 160k turbo would have been far too risky and foolish! There's nothing half baked about it! Infact I didnt want a big exhaust I actually wanted the hybrid 19t for a number of reasons.
As far as im concerned ive now got a fast, reliable, refined T5 that does the job very nicely, I want for no more from my car and I wouldnt hesitate to recomend the route Ive took, 12000 miles on and the car still performs just as amazingly if not better as it did the day I brought it home from having the work done, just because its not yours or other people's chosen route dose'nt mean its the wrong choice or a bad one!

[bobcat]

Originally Posted by Lance BLACK V70 T5

What Im saying is no old parts from my original turbo were used, yes its a hybrid turbo, but using original parts from my original 160k turbo would have been far too risky and foolish! There's nothing half baked about it! Infact I didnt want a big exhaust I actually wanted the hybrid 19t for a number of reasons.
As far as im concerned ive now got a fast, reliable, refined T5 that does the job very nicely, I want for no more from my car and I wouldnt hesitate to recomend the route Ive took, 12000 miles on and the car still performs just as amazingly if not better as it did the day I brought it home from having the work done, just because its not yours or other people's chosen route dose'nt mean its the wrong choice or a bad one!

slightly confussed lance, you said that you had a new turbo fitted. but being a half-bake they leave or as you say in your case fit a straight flanged exhuast housing from a 15g/16t or 18t which enables the use of the std downpipe.

so your saying that you bought 2 new turbos (a 19t and one of the above)?

Note: you would need to buy the 19t for the compressor housing which you remove, you would then have to buy a 15g/16t or 18t for the straight exhuast housing which you would remove and bolt up to the 19t compressor housing.

wouldnt it have been cheaper to buy a new downpipe rather than 2 new turbo's?

for what reasons did you take the hybrid over the std 19t, would the quoted 10bhp more have been too much?

I look forward to your next reply .

Thanks
Matt.

[smartbomb]

Originally Posted by PNuT

the one thing i havent spotted (maybe i missed it?) is price???

I you're interested, give Turbo Technics a ring. My own turbo was done at a special one-off price becuase this particular turbo configuration had never been fitted to a T4 before, and I think they just wanted to see if it could be done, and how much work it would be. Now that it's proven so successful they have a drop-in kit ready with all the necessary flanges and so on for most Volvos. Best idea is to call them. The one thing I can tell you is that it will be no more expensive than a 19T.

Paul

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by pyaap

Nope, its 0.86 A/R.

Standard?

[foggyjames]

Originally Posted by bobcat

slightly confussed lance, you said that you had a new turbo fitted. but being a half-bake they leave or as you say in your case fit a straight flanged exhuast housing from a 15g/16t or 18t which enables the use of the std downpipe.

There would be nothing wrong with using the original 18T exhaust housing and wheel with the rest of a 19T. Wheels and housings aren't 'wear' items - unless of course they're damaged. A turbo rebuild kit typically only contains parts (besides nuts and bolts) for the centre cartridge.

cheers

James

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by foggyjames

There would be nothing wrong with using the original 18T exhaust housing and wheel with the rest of a 19T. Wheels and housings aren't 'wear' items - unless of course they're damaged. A turbo rebuild kit typically only contains parts (besides nuts and bolts) for the centre cartridge.

cheers

James

James, I'm not interested in nit picking and taking sides, but IMHO if your reference to wheel is the turbine then you are mistaken if you think this sustains no wear over thousands of miles

Cheers

Engineer.

[foggyjames]

I know several people who have simply 'rebuilt' their old turbo (i.e. freshened up the CHRA), and gone on for many thousands of miles quite happily. These are relatively recent events, so we don't have hundreds of thousands of miles to comment on, but I've seen plenty of 150k+ wheels which are still in perfect shape. If the wheel is damaged (perhaps due to an impact from a foreign object?), that's a different matter, but I wasn't aware that they 'wear' as such.

I'm no turbo expert, so I'm more than willing to be proved wrong. What causes them to wear?

cheers

James

[carpy]

Originally Posted by bobcat

slightly confussed lance, you said that you had a new turbo fitted. but being a half-bake they leave or as you say in your case fit a straight flanged exhuast housing from a 15g/16t or 18t which enables the use of the std downpipe.

so your saying that you bought 2 new turbos (a 19t and one of the above)?

Note: you would need to buy the 19t for the compressor housing which you remove, you would then have to buy a 15g/16t or 18t for the straight exhuast housing which you would remove and bolt up to the 19t compressor housing.

wouldnt it have been cheaper to buy a new downpipe rather than 2 new turbo's?

for what reasons did you take the hybrid over the std 19t, would the quoted 10bhp more have been too much?

I look forward to your next reply .

Thanks
Matt.

Hang on a minute, doesn't this come down to what people regard as belonging to the turbo and what is part of the downpipe?

I mean say my car - 850R standard turbo and downpipe. If I got a 19T it would be a whole turbo, then as I understand it - the hybrid is the bit of pipework which is needed to make this turbo fit to my existing downpipe.

So isnt this like saying its a new 19T turbo, with a bit of pipe made up to connect it to the existing downpipe?