Volvo X (Pro-Touring 1967 Amazon)

[davidw6092]

Have you changed the rear end geometry at all with your new back axle setup?The reason I ask is that on stock amazons the rear end of the car actually lifts slightly under acceleration due to the geometry setup.|This actually forces the body and axle apart,pushing the axle down onto the road.It can be very difficult to get wheelspin in a stock amazon because of this.A 4 linked rear end of say a rally escort does the exact opposite of this due to the placing of the link bars.It may help to explain the lack of traction off the line.

[Colonel Froth]

Looks like it needs softer springs.

Originally Posted by davidw6092

... the rear end of the car actually lifts slightly under acceleration...

You can see from the street videos that there's no anti-squat. Based on the strip video which shows very little movement in the car body overall I'd expect it needs softer springs and maybe damper settings. Any tyre with a wrinkle wall would help. Some anti-squat might help a little (although with low-profiles & harsh springs it might just create wheel-hop) but this car was built for autocross, and anti-squat needs to be kept to minimum for that.

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

Originally Posted by Colonel Froth

Looks like it needs softer springs.

You can see from the street videos that there's no anti-squat. Based on the strip video which shows very little movement in the car body overall I'd expect it needs softer springs and maybe damper settings. Any tyre with a wrinkle wall would help. Some anti-squat might help a little (although with low-profiles & harsh springs it might just create wheel-hop) but this car was built for autocross, and anti-squat needs to be kept to minimum for that.

On the track I wasn't getting any lift of the front or sag of the rear because there was absolutely no traction to accomplish that.. LOL If you watch the 2nd attempt in the first video, you can see that the wheels instantly spin by just tapping the throttle, and that is because it was like ice. One the street video, you can see the rear coming down and the front coming up evenily, and I had some serious bite of the pavement there. I lowered the stiffness of the rear at the track, and not an ounce of difference due to no traction at all.

[222s]

Originally Posted by davidw6092

on stock amazons the rear end of the car actually lifts slightly under acceleration due to the geometry setup.|This actually forces the body and axle apart,pushing the axle down onto the road.It can be very difficult to get wheelspin in a stock amazon because of this.

Out of interest, is that the same for the estate as well?

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

Originally Posted by davidw6092

Have you changed the rear end geometry at all with your new back axle setup?The reason I ask is that on stock amazons the rear end of the car actually lifts slightly under acceleration due to the geometry setup.|This actually forces the body and axle apart,pushing the axle down onto the road.It can be very difficult to get wheelspin in a stock amazon because of this.A 4 linked rear end of say a rally escort does the exact opposite of this due to the placing of the link bars.It may help to explain the lack of traction off the line.

Not sure why that is the case there, because I am using the same basic geometry and attachment points, and my suspension squats during acceleration.. The only time I have see a rear end of a car come up is while it is being power braked for some reason, but this isn't the case here at all..

[Colonel Froth]

Originally Posted by 222s

Out of interest, is that the same for the estate as well?

It's a PITA to calculate. It's expressed as a percentage so it's not either-or, but I've never noticed any particular anti-squat tendencies. 0% is maximum squat, 100% is neutral which is good for drag racing, anything over 100% causes the rear to lift under acceleration. This dyno pull is an example of >100%.

Originally Posted by Iamtheonlyreal1

On the track I wasn't getting any lift of the front or sag of the rear because there was absolutely no traction to accomplish that.

Can't you borrow some big wrinkle walls on tiny wheels for diagnosis? If you have to really drop the pressure to make them hook then you know it's the suspension causing the problems, alternatively if they get you into the 10s off the bat then you know those Goodrich are no good on the strip. Drag cars this size typically run no front ARB and maybe a 1" rear, but if you start chasing low ETs that hard someone will ask why you're trying to tune a cone crusher to go in a straight line......

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

Originally Posted by Colonel Froth

It's a PITA to calculate. It's expressed as a percentage so it's not either-or, but I've never noticed any particular anti-squat tendencies. 0% is maximum squat, 100% is neutral which is good for drag racing, anything over 100% causes the rear to lift under acceleration. This dyno pull is an example of >100%.


Can't you borrow some big wrinkle walls on tiny wheels for diagnosis? If you have to really drop the pressure to make them hook then you know it's the suspension causing the problems, alternatively if they get you into the 10s off the bat then you know those Goodrich are no good on the strip. Drag cars this size typically run no front ARB and maybe a 1" rear, but if you start chasing low ETs that hard someone will ask why you're trying to tune a cone crusher to go in a straight line......

I had people offering to let me use there wheels/slicks at the track, but with the brakes I am running I cannot run anything smaller that 17in wheels, and not all 17's will clear.. And where I have the car sitting, they have to be the correct offset, or they would have caused body damage, so it wasn't worth the risk there.

After talking to Toyo and Nitto tires I have found out that their competition/track tires are absolutely no good for a real drag strip due to the make up of the rubber compounds and the set up of the tracks, so I suspect that is the same thing with the G-Force.. I wasn't wanting to set the car up for a straight line racer, but I was wanting some 1/4 mile times that could be compared to statistics from high performance new cars, and I figured I could take it to the track to do so.. I also found out that the new car companies do not run their cars on a traditional 1/4 mile set up track, so I will find another alternative to get my times.

The best estimate of 1/4 mile times based off of the information gathered is the car would be in the low 11's on the street with street tires, and would be in the 10's with the slicks, but that is speculation at this point. The fact the car would get to 110mph in the horrible 13.7sec shows it is a traction issue. Here is the best comparison I have for the difference of the Street launch the the 1/4 mile track launch.. If you had a glass of water sitting in your lap during the take off from the street, you would be soaked. If you had that same glass of water on the drag strip, it wouldn't spill.. LOL I am not exaggerating there, because the two pavements were completely different.

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

Here are a few video's of Volvo X on a 2.5 mile road course, and I will have to work on the camera positions just a bit more the next time.. For the first initial run on Daily Driver capable settings the car did absolutely great, and with a bit more camber and a sway bar that is about 30 percent larger in diameter than the IPD bar I have on there now, the car should do much better.

The preliminary idea for setup on the next session is to stiffen the front spring setting just a hair and see about getting more of a performance sway bar than is offered for these cars, along with a more performance/track alignment. Keep in mind that I have this car setup for daily driver also, and the car was driven over an hour each way to get to the track and back, so this is more of a neutral setting at this time. We can still play with the coil over Dampening and Rebound settings a bit more on the next session, but I wanted to get some hard runs for our base setting, and then see what we can do to adjust it to a more track friendly setting later.

For the people that wondered about my intake system using the cowl vent was going to have a negative air pressure issue at high speeds, I think the wiper arms tell the tale.. I guess the wipers for these cars were not made for this type of activity.. LOL

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

+ YouTube Video

[Derek UK]

Looking good. Quieter inside than I expected and will be even better when trimmed. A plus IMO. Suspension a bit soft with a bit of roll but again good for fast touring. A few odd clangs from underneath? One when you put it into reverse? Of more concern is the rather flexi steering column mount which maybe more be more obvious on screen than when driving.
Good progress. Nice track. Blue skies..................

[Iamtheonlyreal1]

Originally Posted by Derek UK

Looking good. Quieter inside than I expected and will be even better when trimmed. A plus IMO. Suspension a bit soft with a bit of roll but again good for fast touring. A few odd clangs from underneath? One when you put it into reverse? Of more concern is the rather flexi steering column mount which maybe more be more obvious on screen than when driving.
Good progress. Nice track. Blue skies..................

Derek.. I am also very impressed with the interior volumn and sound, because there isn't a stitch of carpet or interior panels other than the door panels, so it will only get better when I get the sound deadener on the roof skin and all the panels and carpet in the car.. During normal driving the exhaust isn't really noticeable from the interior unless you really throttle it up, but when you pull up somewhere it is easy to tell the car means business, and that is the way I like it.

If you watch the video just a bit, those loud noises are actually the front Jack Tabs catching the curb in the turns.. There was just a bit of rear tire rub during hard articulation, but there wasn't enough to dig in the tire at all, so I am not too worried about that at all. The reverse clang was a new driver putting the car in reverse while not clutching properly, so there isn't any issue there.

The steering column flex is a combination of the Tilt Column and Steering wheel itself, and eventhough the car looks soft in the pics, there was a lot of g's during the turns, and I can attest to that during the ride alongs because I couldn't keep myself planted in the bolstered seats.. LOL If you notice that we are rarily full throttling the car and the car is being lugged around at times rather than down shifting for rev's, and the car doesn't actually need to be shifted out of 3rd till 114mph, then that will give you a better idea of the forces going on. I will work on better camera positions, along with some equipment to focus on speed and G's, but this was really just a trial run.

The goal of this run was to take the car on the track in a Daily Driver setup to see what it was capable of with those settings, and then it is basically skies the limit from there, because it is just a matter for making necessary spring rate, shock setting, tires, brake bias, ect setting for a more dedicated track car.