What's it worth?

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by Stu B

Just a note to say I generally hide the number plate on any for sale advert photos when I’m selling a car if it’s advertised on a public website. There are legitimate reasons for this, mine being that when selling a VW van once someone used the reg from my advert and cloned a plate onto a stolen vehicle of the same make, model and colour. They then used the vehicle to pick up speeding fines, parking tickets and steal caravans and trailers! Tickets for which all came to me and took a while to dispute, also delaying my sale and calling into question to potential buyers whether my vehicle was legitimate.

This also happened to my brother in law selling a BMW.

On that basis, I don’t discount cars advertised with obscured number plates but just enquire with the seller or ask for photos emailed with the plate shown.

Thanks,
Stu

Good point, Stu. That's totally understandable.

[Kev0607]

Not an update as much, but more of a bit of thinking time since I last posted...

I've been looking at electric cars. Now I know they have problems of their own like range and not being able to charge them easily because the charging points are broken, but for short local trips (which is what I do), maybe one of those might suit better? I can charge it at home and there's plenty of chargers around locally anyway, which is a good thing (they actually work too).

Currently, I do around 2,000-3000 miles a year. I know people will say why do you have a diesel doing that mileage, but I fell in love with the car when I seen it and I always give it motorway runs where possible and use quality fuel. Really though, I don't need a diesel... I agree.

I did a few calculations and watched a few videos, but I've always admired the Nissan Leaf (Tekna model). I know they're a funky looking thing, some may even call them ugly, but I actually like how they look. A Tekna model is really well specced with heated seats, leather interior, air con, cruise control, heated steering wheel, reversing camera to name but a few features. They also have a 5 star NCAP safety rating. Its basically better specced than the car I have now, being honest.

A Nissan Leaf costs approximately £1.70 to charge to full (if on a night time EV tariff at approx 7p per kw) - You'd do around 60-70 miles in warm weather on that, probably 40-50 in winter (24kw battery). I know that range isn't great, but to do 60-70 miles in my car around town would cost about £25/£30 in diesel.

Then there's the road tax. Mine is £365 a year, a Leaf is free this year, but it'll be £180 next year (EV's will be charged to be on the road like all other cars), but its still half the price. They aren't badly priced either, you can get a decent one for around £4,500-£5,000. That will be way newer than my car, around a 15 plate with 60k on. Also running costs are minimal... no oil changes, cam belts, EGR valves or DPF's to worry about.

I follow a channel on YouTube where a chap has owned one for over 10 years and has done over 60,000 miles in it. He's spent £220 on it in that time in maintenance, which if I recall correctly was brake pads or handbrake shoes. He was over the moon with how good a car it has been, but it suits his needs as he doesn't do mega miles.

[jasmith44]

Will it not need a new battery soon at 9 years old?

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by jasmith44

Will it not need a new battery soon at 9 years old?

A lot I've seen still have very good battery health. There's an indicator on the dash that shows you how the battery is doing. A healthy battery has 12 bars, but most I've seen for sale have 10 or even 11 bars. Then there's a range indicator, but that's not to be confused with battery state of health.

There's plenty out there with low battery health, but I'm not looking at those. I'm looking at 9 bars+.

[xavierx]

I don't want to get into any sort of argument with the angry EV fanatics, but there is one important thing you need to consider when going to an EV .....

With a petrol diesel car, you can keep then running with regular maintenance for DECADES

Unless you are super unlucky (or neglect maintenance) there is nothing bar a total engine failure that can't be fixed on a petrol/diesel car.

With a used EV, almost the entire value is in the battery. When the battery fails (which it can do at any time at all) it almost never makes sense to replace it, as it will cost more than the entire price of the car, especially with older EVs. So the car is disposable.

You will never see someone driving a 20 year old EV, but goto any supermarket car park, and you'll find plenty of early 2000's cars still in use as daily drivers.

[Bonefishblues]

Is it impertinent to point out that the number of EVs made 20 years ago was truly vanishingly small, so that might be why you don't see many out and about?

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by xavierx

I don't want to get into any sort of argument with the angry EV fanatics, but there is one important thing you need to consider when going to an EV .....

With a petrol diesel car, you can keep then running with regular maintenance for DECADES

Unless you are super unlucky (or neglect maintenance) there is nothing bar a total engine failure that can't be fixed on a petrol/diesel car.

With a used EV, almost the entire value is in the battery. When the battery fails (which it can do at any time at all) it almost never makes sense to replace it, as it will cost more than the entire price of the car, especially with older EVs. So the car is disposable.

You will never see someone driving a 20 year old EV, but goto any supermarket car park, and you'll find plenty of early 2000's cars still in use as daily drivers.

That is a fair point, but in the same sense, repairs on an old petrol or diesel car can eventually outweigh the value of the vehicle. The cost to fix the car will keep it on the road, but it'll mean nothing come sale time. You aren't going to get £1,000 extra because it has new suspension for example.

There becomes a point where its no longer financially viable to keep throwing money at a car when things go wrong. Things will break on old cars, just with age.

EV batteries are expensive, but all the same, an EV doesn't cost nearly as much to keep on the road. What you save in fuel, insurance, road tax and servicing costs alone over a prolonged period of time would pay for a battery replacement. That only applies if you're keeping the EV long term of course and you buy one with a decent state of health to start with.

Then there's the emissions zones. Old/non-compliant petrol or diesel cars have to pay £12,50 to travel in them. Manchester's is currently "under review", but that means nothing. If the Government decide that it'll be like London, then older cars are goosed and subject to charges. Then it definitely won't be worth owning an old car. Time will tell on that front, but its only a matter of time before a decision is made. The signs are up, as are the cameras. Its basically "ready to go".

Andy Burnham (Mayor) doesn't want cars to be charged if Manchester was to have an emissions zone - Its other vehicles like HGV's that would be charged if they didn't meet emissions standards. We know what you want and what you get are two different things... The Government will decide. They've spent millions on all the signage etc... its highly unlikely that there's going to be a u-turn on it.

[xavierx]

Originally Posted by Bonefishblues

Is it impertinent to point out that the number of EVs made 20 years ago was truly vanishingly small, so that might be why you don't see many out and about?

I believe the first EV's were created around 1910 🤣

But seriously, the earliest "mainstream" EV's are 2010 Nissan Leafs and if you look at the cheapest ones on ebay/autotrader they are faulty ones with dead batteries. No-one is going to spend £6k putting a new battery in a £3k Nissan Leaf, so at that point, it's a car for parts/scrap. (With long range modern EV's the battery can be £20k+)

We can only look at how zero 20 year old mobile phones/laptops/power tools have working batteries that can still a decent charge. We can read from the datasheets of the batteries that the cells decay both as a function of time and number of cycles, so they will fail.


All that said, if you are the sort of person that likes EVs, and they work for you, then by all means you go for it 👍


I personally enjoy keeping older petrol/diesel cars going for as long as possible and will continue to do so for as long as I am able to drive them.

[Kev0607]

Originally Posted by xavierx

I believe the first EV's were created around 1910 🤣

But seriously, the earliest "mainstream" EV's are 2010 Nissan Leafs and if you look at the cheapest ones on ebay/autotrader they are faulty ones with dead batteries. No-one is going to spend £6k putting a new battery in a £3k Nissan Leaf, so at that point, it's a car for parts/scrap. (With long range modern EV's the battery can be £20k+)

We can only look at how zero 20 year old mobile phones/laptops/power tools have working batteries that can still a decent charge. We can read from the datasheets of the batteries that the cells decay both as a function of time and number of cycles, so they will fail.


All that said, if you are the sort of person that likes EVs, and they work for you, then by all means you go for it 👍


I personally enjoy keeping older petrol/diesel cars going for as long as possible and will continue to do so for as long as I am able to drive them.

They aren't the ones I'm looking at. I'm looking at the ones that have decent battery health, like 10 bars+ with plenty of life left in them. I'm still not 100% sure what to do, being honest.

In the same sense, if a petrol or diesel car required a lot of money to get it running again or through an MOT, not many would be keen on spending that either. Not everyone keeps cars forever, some would rather put the money that they'd spend on their existing car to something newer with less mileage.

I can go on autotrader right now and find cars with a list of advisories as long as my arm that will need attention at some point in future. I'd rather buy one that had less problems.

[GMcL]

A lot has been learnt about EVs since 2010 such as you don't have to plug them in everyone the wheels stop rolling. Fast, frequent DC charging causes faster wear than slow AC charging at home, if you have the space and ability to do so.

The chemistry of the battery and onboard care, BMS, cooling, it's all being refined with each new version released. It's a fast learning curve for manufacturers, garages and users.

Charging to 100% being an example, most recommendations now are 80% then discharge down to 10-20% and recharge. Doing that with your mobile phone and laptop will also increase the lifespan and maximise the charge cycle count.

There are some things I do not want to adapt my behaviour in using the vehicle e.g. not using the heating in the middle of winter, there are some changes to accept which prolong the life of the car and keeps your wallet happy. You wouldn't get into a petrol or diesel and red line it from cold, that's an accepted compromise for those vehicles.