240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[Laird Scooby]

An excellent bargain Alan! I've always favoured the "tall'n'skinny" approach to winter tyres but these days it seems impossible to get them (165SR15 for example) so slightly narrower with a taller sidewall is probably the best compromise.

By the way, you have a PM!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

An excellent bargain Alan! I've always favoured the "tall'n'skinny" approach to winter tyres but these days it seems impossible to get them (165SR15 for example) so slightly narrower with a taller sidewall is probably the best compromise.

By the way, you have a PM!

I think rims might be an issue Dave - I suspect one might need 4.5J for those (I think the aspect ratio was something like 80% on SR tyres).

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I think rims might be an issue Dave - I suspect one might need 4.5J for those (I think the aspect ratio was something like 80% on SR tyres).

Alan

A general rule of thumb is the tyre should be no more than ~2" wider than the rim it's being fitted to Alan. This minimises the "balloon" effect where the tyre looks like a balloon on the rim.
Working that back, a 4.5J rim is ~115mm wide so a 165 is on the limits, better to go with a 5J or 5.5J for 165 tyres to maintain the sidewall in a straighter state.

You are correct, the aspect ratio (if memory serves) was something like 78% on standard tyres, whether they were SR, TR, HR or whatever speed rating. I believe 80% is used as a close approximation when working out rolling circumference.

Going too wide on the rim with a narrow tyre results in something now being seen as fashionable and is called "stretching" - this would be (in an extreme case) something like a 135/15 tyre on a 7J rim.

Something in the back of my mind says the original fitment on the 244 was 5J x 15 rims with 165SR15 tyres. I may be wrong on this but don't think so. I've no idea what the base model Skoda had or indeed if you could fit a "tall'n'skinny" tyre to the steel rims but it's generally accepted those sort of tyres are better in snow and ice.

All that said, with tyre technology having come a long way from when i first looked into winter tyres, it's entirely possible now that a wider tyre will still grip better than a narrow tyre if they're both winter compounds.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

A general rule of thumb is the tyre should be no more than ~2" wider than the rim it's being fitted to Alan. This minimises the "balloon" effect where the tyre looks like a balloon on the rim.
Working that back, a 4.5J rim is ~115mm wide so a 165 is on the limits, better to go with a 5J or 5.5J for 165 tyres to maintain the sidewall in a straighter state.

You are correct, the aspect ratio (if memory serves) was something like 78% on standard tyres, whether they were SR, TR, HR or whatever speed rating. I believe 80% is used as a close approximation when working out rolling circumference.

Going too wide on the rim with a narrow tyre results in something now being seen as fashionable and is called "stretching" - this would be (in an extreme case) something like a 135/15 tyre on a 7J rim.

Something in the back of my mind says the original fitment on the 244 was 5J x 15 rims with 165SR15 tyres. I may be wrong on this but don't think so. I've no idea what the base model Skoda had or indeed if you could fit a "tall'n'skinny" tyre to the steel rims but it's generally accepted those sort of tyres are better in snow and ice.

All that said, with tyre technology having come a long way from when i first looked into winter tyres, it's entirely possible now that a wider tyre will still grip better than a narrow tyre if they're both winter compounds.

You are a fount of knowledge Dave - I've learned something new already today.

You are probably right about the original fitment for the 244 being 165SR15 - I have 195/65R15 tyres (on Virago wheels) fitted to the RB, so:

165*0.78=129mm and...
195*0.65=127mm

... which will give almost exaclty the same rolling radius, so the gearing and speedometer will be just about the same (+/- within the wear of the tyres).

The base model Škoda Superb had 205/55R16 tyres on steel wheels (exactly the same as the full size spare I have in the boot). The rims are 6.5J, so I think much too wide to mount a 165 tyre (6.5" would give us about 165mm, which I think would look pretty daft and probably not seal well).

It will be interesting to see how much better the 16" winter tyres cope (than do the 18" summer ones) come November. On first impressions I think all bodes well: the smaller tyres suit the car better (but don't look the part from a marketing point of view - that is all). The Superb is quite a big car, so I think 205 is probably about right so it has enough grip in dry conditions.

Everything is a compromise of course.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

don't look the part from a marketing point of view -
Everything is a compromise of course.

Alan

That's arguably the biggest reason bigger wheels and tyres are fitted to new cars. Lower profiles and stiffer sidewalls don't offer the compliance to soak up small lumps and bumps so while they look "cool" for the marketing men, they look like a pay cheque to the local chiropractor!

If you work out the rolling diameter of a 205/55/16 and a 195/65/15, you'll find they are very similar. If memory serves, the 205/55/16 is 632mm and the 195/65/15 is 634mm so well within the "recommended" +/-2.5% limit of interchangeability.

Being selfish, i hope you don't get to try out your winter tyres in the snow and ice, simply because i don't want a cold winter!

That said i hope you are able to try them out and based on your previous experience, give an opinion whether they grip better or not. I have heard that winter tyres used in the summer will wear much quicker, presumably they are a softer compound so when warmed up in the summer, will be so soft that they have less durability in terms of wear. In the colder weather, they will still be softer than their summer counterparts so will offer improved grip.
Or something like that!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

That said i hope you are able to try them out and based on your previous experience, give an opinion whether they grip better or not. I have heard that winter tyres used in the summer will wear much quicker, presumably they are a softer compound so when warmed up in the summer, will be so soft that they have less durability in terms of wear. In the colder weather, they will still be softer than their summer counterparts so will offer improved grip.
Or something like that!

You are right - winter tyres won't last well if used in the summer, mine will be on the car just until I get the 18" alloy wheels back from being painted.

We may not get snow this coming winter (some years we get none at all) but it will certainly freeze quite a bit, and the winter tyres will work better in any cold conditions.

I remember my grandfather changing the tyres to the winter set (with tyre irons I think - this would have been back in the 60s as a young child). I think that on average winters were a bit harsher then (although we still get harsh winters now - people forget the Beast from the East when the Greens keep bombarding us with their opinions). Tyres and cars were much less capable then, and many more roads in country areas were unsurfaced, so swapping to winter tyres was more of a necessity that it is today.

I still think there are enough frosty and snowy days to make winter tyres worth it - the Škoda is generally okay in cold conditions (even with the 18" tyres) but there have been times when it wasn't able to climb the slope outside my house until I'd cleared a path with a shovel.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

I think that on average winters were a bit harsher then (although we still get harsh winters now - people forget the Beast from the East when the Greens keep bombarding us with their opinions). Tyres and cars were much less capable then, and many more roads in country areas were unsurfaced, so swapping to winter tyres was more of a necessity that it is today.

I still think there are enough frosty and snowy days to make winter tyres worth it - the Škoda is generally okay in cold conditions (even with the 18" tyres) but there have been times when it wasn't able to climb the slope outside my house until I'd cleared a path with a shovel.

Alan

Remember the old spinning top with the pump handle in the top to get them spinning Alan? It would strat spinning at full speed and be pretty stable.
As it slowed down, it would start describing another circle as a slight wobble while still spinning at a reasonable speed.

That's what the planet is doing and has been for umpteen millennia before now so we're now in a period wherethe northern hemisphere is leaning towards the sun slightly more.
That means we're generally slightly warmer throughout the year but with more of a prominant difference between day/night/day. When i was just a pup, i think the earth was more vertical so we had a longer "changeover" between day/night/day but were slightly further from the sun. Assuming we're at full tilt now towards the sun, another 40-50 years should see us with the same climate as we had when i was knee high to a grasshopper. Give it another 50 years of my theory and it will be about 12C maximum in summer and winters of -20C will be commonplace.

It is a theory but there's a lot of scientific research about this that suggests it's correct. It all seems to be hushed up in favour of feeding us all the compost the Greenies want us to swallow. Look back through history and there is evidence there to suggest this theory is correct and as the top slows down, the wobble increases - if the earth is also slowing down,, the extremes of weather will also increase.

By then, the Greenies won't be able to campaign and complain about motorists as we will all be flying round in personal transport pods with anti-gravity engines and ionic propulsion. Where all this energy will come from with no sun for 365 days of each year and then a year of daylight, i'm not sure, we don't currently have batteries capable of that kind of charge/discharge.

Now the Greenies ideas have been composted , next snowy/icy day you get, point the RB at the hill, put it in "D" and let the car do the rest with minimum throttle if needed.

I have heard rumours that shifting a BW box directly into 1 then manually into 2 before moving off forces it into 2 to minimise wheelspin, i've never been able to confirm this as i didn't hear about this until i was on AW boxes. While they're likely to be very similar and my tests on my AW70 box have proved inconclusive (it worked sometimes but not others), it's worth a try if you find a surface it struggles on.
As for your Skoda, if you drive everywhere in reverse, it will grip well and get you moving. All to do with weight transfer as you accelerate.

[john.wigley]

Alternatively, you could invest in one of these! J.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4306...te-off-roader/

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Remember the old spinning top with the pump handle in the top to get them spinning Alan? It would strat spinning at full speed and be pretty stable.
As it slowed down, it would start describing another circle as a slight wobble while still spinning at a reasonable speed.

That's what the planet is doing and has been for umpteen millennia before now so we're now in a period wherethe northern hemisphere is leaning towards the sun slightly more.
That means we're generally slightly warmer throughout the year but with more of a prominant difference between day/night/day. When i was just a pup, i think the earth was more vertical so we had a longer "changeover" between day/night/day but were slightly further from the sun. Assuming we're at full tilt now towards the sun, another 40-50 years should see us with the same climate as we had when i was knee high to a grasshopper. Give it another 50 years of my theory and it will be about 12C maximum in summer and winters of -20C will be commonplace.

It is a theory but there's a lot of scientific research about this that suggests it's correct. It all seems to be hushed up in favour of feeding us all the compost the Greenies want us to swallow. Look back through history and there is evidence there to suggest this theory is correct and as the top slows down, the wobble increases - if the earth is also slowing down,, the extremes of weather will also increase.

By then, the Greenies won't be able to campaign and complain about motorists as we will all be flying round in personal transport pods with anti-gravity engines and ionic propulsion. Where all this energy will come from with no sun for 365 days of each year and then a year of daylight, i'm not sure, we don't currently have batteries capable of that kind of charge/discharge.

Now the Greenies ideas have been composted , next snowy/icy day you get, point the RB at the hill, put it in "D" and let the car do the rest with minimum throttle if needed.

I have heard rumours that shifting a BW box directly into 1 then manually into 2 before moving off forces it into 2 to minimise wheelspin, i've never been able to confirm this as i didn't hear about this until i was on AW boxes. While they're likely to be very similar and my tests on my AW70 box have proved inconclusive (it worked sometimes but not others), it's worth a try if you find a surface it struggles on.
As for your Skoda, if you drive everywhere in reverse, it will grip well and get you moving. All to do with weight transfer as you accelerate.

Now this is something I do know about (I'm a surveyor by profession), what you are describing is called precession, and it manifests itself in a way that we can measure by true North wandering around a bit (magnetic North also wanders around - but for not exactly the same reasons).

The world will change quite a bit, regardless of what we do it it, and one day there will be another ice age (well, there will probably be lots of ice ages over the rest of the life of the Earth - another 4.5 billion years or thereabouts to go). That does not mean we should not be wasteful (we should not - all that flying people to the other side of the world on holidays and to attend climate change conferences is wrong), but it does mean that the Green's stuff will not save the world... but that is another story.

The Skoda (being FWD) is pretty sure footed in the cold weather, it would grip a bit better if I reversed up the slope outside my house - but that might be a bit dangerous as I got to the T junction at the top!

I'll try the BW box second gear trick sometime - it should work on the slope (the BW may not have enough torque to pull away uphill in second though).

Alan

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

Alternatively, you could invest in one of these! J.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/4306...te-off-roader/

... or a BV206 (like the Royal Marines have) - I think both might be going a bit too far for the groceries run to Morrison's store John :-)