Car functionality.

[I Feel Old]

Truth be known Thomas, I am from your camp, however the technology is here and there's not a lot we can do about it as individuals.

An interesting point to note is that Volvo's recent success is based on the company's modern technologically loaded cars. They are appealing to more people. Without the Geely investment the old product could well have seen Volvo go the same way Saab did?

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by I Feel Old

Truth be known Thomas, I am from your camp, however the technology is here and there's not a lot we can do about it as individuals.

An interesting point to note is that Volvo's recent success is based on the company's modern technologically loaded cars. They are appealing to more people. Without the Geely investment the old product could well have seen Volvo go the same way Saab did?

Well.. Yes.

But at what cost?

Is it the same company that we used to know?
Are these the same cars we learned to rely upon?

(Now its getting a bit more serious, and.. sad, actually)

Are these nothing more than some BMWs and Mercs with different badge?

As I stated above- I've seen what kind of driver do they appeal to.

No doubt there's more of such drivers, brains off, taught to rely on others and electronics to do job that ultimately- driver is responsible for.

Yes, I think my .. anger.. isn't really aimed at cars, but at what people let to do to themselves by all these (only sometimes useful) "inventions".

Yes, I can understand " technology is here, let's use it, that's progress"

Without such approach we wouldn't have wheel, fire, lightbulbs, cars, computers, mobile phones, home insulations, gas central heating..

But we also wouldnt have pedestrians to busy checking Facebook to look where they're going.
With introduction of internet access (antisocial media included) into cars- I just can't see it as a good thing.

We also wouldn't be blinded by approaching vehicles with badly set self levelling lights.
In many cases drivers would happily correct these lights, but manual controls were stripped..

Without that "progress" we wouldn't see cars running on front daylights ONLY in the middle of the night.

Don't get me wrong- I'm all in for new, USEFUL AND SAFE stuff.

But it needs to be done properly. With thinking.

I wouldn't even be against these self levellers, if I was able to "take over" from it, when I see something's wrong. And not by blugging Vida in, shifting trough menus, downloading patches.
No.

Now and here, middle of motorway or stopped at traffic lights- flick of a button and control over lights is mine.

Don't get me started on keyless.

A "security" that requires user to carry key in metal mesh bag in order to be sure car is locked.

Great security. Great improvement.

[ThomasG]

Nothing we can do?

Oh yes, there is.

Next time you're buying a car (at the dealer) go:

Facebook access? No thank you. Kill it off.
And keyless.
And turn off the lane assist.
No, I don't take "can't be done" as an answer. I don't want these things, turn them off or I won't buy the car. Period.

But to do that, people need to stop going "Whee!!! I can check new photos of cats as I'm driving!"
And start thinking "will it be useful at all when driving or am I more likely to have/cause accident?"

[I Feel Old]

I agree with much of what you say, security risk of keyless for example (but I confess it's good). internet access...

However, I do get the impression that your anger is somewhat blinding you with the consequence that you are more subjective than objective about new technology. You appear to be dismissing certain functionality without trying it, or as you put it;

Originally Posted by ThomasG

But it needs to be done properly. With thinking.

I get the impression you are not thinking things through fully.

For long before day running lights were common place drivers have run around with only sidelights at night, or worse (as is still seen), they switch on side lights in fog, indicating they know lights are required. IMO cars should no longer have sidelights.

Similarly there has always been the non thinking driver who is oblivious to surroundings and sits at 45 out on the open road and maintains it through the 30mph village up past the school.

Cars aside there is an increasing tendency across society to willingly surrender all personal responsibility, driving is just naturally caught up in it. The disinterest in the young learning to drive is a good example.

The notion that drivers would adjust their headlights manually is, IMO, wishful thinking. That would mean engaging with the process of being in charge of the car and accepting responsibility for it.

On a side note I find it interesting that having asked the technology questions I have done in the OP, there has been little feedback from those with knowledge.

I'm unsure what to read in to that fact, maybe just posted int he wrong place?

Re your last post; switching it off doesn't change anything, the technology is still there.

[ThomasG]

I never said I'm objective

Originally Posted by ThomasG

(Stating personal and biased view)

.

Yes, lack of commitment, lack of interest in driving, lack if sense of responsibility..

That I see as a main thing.

And all these (well, ok- not ALL, but many, many) "innovations" make it even worse.

"Why would I be focusing what is ahead of me if car will brake when needed?"
"Why would I remember about lights if car can do it?"

Its only getting worse (still personal and biased opinion).


Is there any single traffic camera that will check any of the following:

Driver indicating correctly.
Lane discipline.
Tailgating.
"Rolling roadblock"
Cutting in.
Improperly taking priority of way.

I don't know of such.

And yet- there's less and less traffic police, more and more cameras that catch you only on speed and red light..

Apart from that- do as you please, dear uninterested driver.
Of course you don't have to look at the road.
Of course you don't need to know what's happening behind you.
By all means, do undertake that lorry using emergency lane. Oh.. There was a broken car there? Now there's two.. Worry not- we will improve automatic brakes, so you can focus on important things.

Now, from a point of view of experienced driver (not some suit-clad PR representative of one ir other agency):

Where do most of accidents come from?

Is it speed?
Or is it bad planning, lack of concentration, general bad attitude towards driving itself?

Do these "gizmos" help to educate drivers, to be better drivers, to have better understanding of road
conditions?

Let's face it: a driver who knows how to plan ahead, who knows how to adjust speed and so on..
Such driver simply doesn't need automatic brakes. He's got it covered well in advance.

So why is an excuse(automatic brakes) being made for drivers who can't be bothered?

Because it sells.
Nothing to do with safety.

[ThomasG]

Oh, as for lack of answers:

Did you try posting in section relevant to your car?

This, after all, is "general" section.

Most of folk looking for specific info goes straight to their section..

[ThomasG]

OK.. OK.. Wind down Thomas.. There's work to do..

Get on with it. Taking over the world can wait..

[I Feel Old]

Oh you old cynic you.

Its an interesting one, the standard of driving is very poor IMO. Indeed some of the posts I have read on here have confirmed my view that there are many that will do as they see fit.

Sad reality is that individuals are not going to change, therefore the automation is likely to result in safer roads.

It cannot be any other way than some technology will be better than other technology.

Until 3 weeks ago my view of a HUD was, gimmick. 3 weeks later I see the safety advantages.

Go try some of this technology and let us know if you are still so against it.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

"Why would I be focusing what is ahead of me if car will brake when needed?"

It's a half way house to full automation. I don't doubt there are accidents caused by reliance on automation, it would be interesting to know how many accidents have been prevent due the technology.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

"Why would I remember about lights if car can do it?"

You wouldn't, that's the point. The idea being the car puts the lights on that would have been left off by the brain disengaged driver.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Its only getting worse (still personal and biased opinion).

I'm afraid biased subjective opinions very seldom reflect the reality.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Is there any single traffic camera that will check any of the following:

Not to my knowledge and to be fair that's an entirely different topic, however;

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Driver indicating correctly.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Lane discipline.

In car technology encourages proper indication by resisting lane change if the indicators have not been used, which also helps with lane discipline.

As does BLIS, by giving the brain disengaged driver warning that there is something there.

Let's face it, without that technology these drivers will drive the same way.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Tailgating.

I'd guess adaptive cruise control help with this.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Apart from that- do as you please, dear uninterested driver.
Of course you don't have to look at the road.
Of course you don't need to know what's happening behind you.
By all means, do undertake that lorry using emergency lane. Oh.. There was a broken car there? Now there's two.. Worry not- we will improve automatic brakes, so you can focus on important things.

Again different issues, driver problems and not technology.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Now, from a point of view of experienced driver (not some suit-clad PR representative of one ir other agency):

By experienced I take it you mean good, which of course is your own biased opinion.

Originally Posted by ThomasG

Where do most of accidents come from?

Is it speed?
Or is it bad planning, lack of concentration, general bad attitude towards driving itself?

Do these "gizmos" help to educate drivers, to be better drivers, to have better understanding of road conditions?

We are in agreement about the standard of driving, it's shocking. As I have said some of the attitudes proudly displayed on this forum speaks volumes.

A while back I had a test drive in a car with a reversing camera that the salesman demonstrated before I drove it. At the end of the demo I said; 'well I won't be having that'. He was surprised until I pointed out that during the whole manoeuvre he had not once looked outside the car.

[ThomasG]

My point being:

These things provide no way of improving driving standards, quite the opposite.

A lil' supplement to automatic lights:

Yes, the driver wouldn't (or maybe would) remember of lights, but at least he'd know if they're on or not.

As it is in many cases, driver of modern car will see road lit up in front of him, and assume all is good, automation is doing its work..

Whilst driving without tail lights!

Not saying all tech is bad (some of it wasn't thought trough properly, like that keyless), but it still needs to be done properly.

As for ",trying before condemning"

Many a time I was driving down the road just to be blinded by approaching car.
Sure- if I was in that other car, I would have far superior view of road ahead of me, thanks to better (?) headlights..
I would also have far better view of the road ahead of me if I turned on my high beams.

Both have one thing in common: blinding others.

I don't need to try to trive that "other car" to answer this:

"Do I want to be a guy who's going around blinding others?"

"No".

[ThomasG]

Originally Posted by I Feel Old

Re your last post; switching it off doesn't change anything, the technology is still there.

Nearly missed this.

Yes. But dealer gets clear message:

Its not what client wants.

It takes more effort to fit and then disable, than not to fitvit in the first place.

Client doesn't want a car with (for example) keyless entry, and its important for him enough to throw him off buying the car.


That's communication with manufacturer.

Instead of lettim them guess, and sometimes decide, what will be fitted to your car, you like it or not, you're sending clear "I want this and this, I don't mind that, and I definitely don't want this"

There's too much of "nothing we (clients/citizens/whatever) can do" going around.


Heh

Many a times I was daydreaming of winning the lottery (say it doesn't happen to you, come on, say it) and what would following visit to car dealership look like.

"Look, pal, I'm paying cash. But headlights levelling by hand gets fitted, get me some audio unit without Facebook and others, and if this car even once tries to take wheel from me, I'll bring it in and drive it up your... So decide- you want to sell or not"

I did it once in computer shop.

"I wantdiscount for having windows"
"I dont understand, how?"
"Simples- I will have to spend my own, valuable time, removing it. "
"But it comes preinstalled!"
"Your choice- either you get it off that laptop and I pay normal price, or leave it on and give me discount".

I got 10% off.