Demise of the 5 cylinder torque converter volvo

[pont]

Against the good advice from some here I reluctantly get closer to changing my trusted 2007 vintage 2.4 V70 Diesel 6 speed torque converter workhorse, for a recent V70 or S60 auto. There is a problem however.....

I understand that since 2013 Volvo have been changing from a choice of 4 cylinder ford units with "powershift" DSG style autobox ( does not appeal) plus in house 5 cylinder with "geartronic" torque converters (Yum !), to lighter more efficient 4 cylinder engines with Ainsin Warner 8 speed double clutch Autos across the range - except for AWD and I do want want or need one of those.

I also read that since mid 2015 , the confusing engine/auto gearbox line up is now
T3 4 cylinder 1.5 petrol,
D2 4 cylinder Diesel 120 PS
D3 4 cylinder diesel 150 ps
D4 4 cylinder diesel 190 PS All with ainsin warner 8 speed double clutch auto.

All the 8 speed autos are now called "geartronic" , which led me to think they were all torque converter - but not so.

The only Torque converter model is the D4 AWD - again, not for me. The D5 no longer seems to exist.

I get that these changes are caused by pressure from governments to reduce emmisions, but to find that 2 wheel drive volvos with torque converter gearbox are no longer made is quite a shock to me.
I have yet to speak to an owner who is entirely happy with the 8 speed DSG auto, and I have spoken to one or two that are very unhappy with them .
So for a high spec Volvo with Torque converter that I can plan to keep for 10 years, my choice is used, or used. I just cannot see S60 diesel 8 speed DSG type autos running around the roads of britain with 200,000 miles on them in the future, or am I wrong?

[100K+]

Agree can't see the current crop of Volvo's reaching the Lunar mileages I have achieved in the past..... But that's the point ..from Volvo's point.
Why sell you a car that can do 240K if they can sell you THREE that will only do 80K, before costing telephone numbers to fix, and not tell you this when you buy it???

There is a good agreement for just paying to repair a good existing vehicle almost regardless of cost, as a new car will cost you £2k-3K per year depreciation just to sit on your drive - and that's keeping it 10 years. You loose even more if you sell earlier.

Cheers

Bob

[andyg]

I totally agree! I have had a long succession of Volvos with torque convertor auto boxes, starting with 4 and 5 gears, then later cars with 6. Until I retired last month I was doing about 25k business miles a year and I really enjoyed the relaxed, smooth driving. In all that time I never had any trouble from the auto boxes. Those cars got to at least 140k miles before I sold them. Mind you, I do not tow a boat or caravan and most of my driving has been with one person in the car.

I have not tried the newer Volvo double clutch autos yet. But my wife has a Ford Focus 1.6 petrol with the Getrag double clutch box, known as Powershift. It is OK I suppose on the road and the gear changes are quite smooth. But at slow speeds like in car parks it all gets a bit clunky. Also it needs special oil changes every 24k miles which really have to be done by a Ford dealer. There are real concerns about the total service life of those boxes.

My son has a Golf with the equivalent VW DSG box and he has already had one major component replaced under warranty at about 25k miles. That is the mechatronic unit, a really complicated bit of kit! Out of warranty it would have cost him more than £1,000 to fix. VW have had big reliability problems with that DSG box. Naturally my son is worried about what might go wrong in another 2 years time so he intends to take out a VW extended warranty. If the car had a standard torque convertor box he would not need to bother!

[smf333]

WOW! I bought my 2003 2.5T S80 because I was initially after a similar age Transit. But when I saw the used prices of the "newer" Duratorque vans and the problems people had had with the dual mass flywheels, I decided that I could get a car for cheaper.

I've had it just over a year and absolutely love the big swede despite it's 20mpg drinking habit! It's like driving round in your house, there's not an ounce of rust on it and it goes like stink if needs be.

By the sounds of it, the newer Volvo's just aren't as good as these older ones, and makes me think of how can I make this one last as long as possible!

Smf.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by pont

Against the good advice from some here I reluctantly get closer to changing my trusted 2007 vintage 2.4 V70 Diesel 6 speed torque converter workhorse, for a recent V70 or S60 auto. There is a problem however.....

I understand that since 2013 Volvo have been changing from a choice of 4 cylinder ford units with "powershift" DSG style autobox ( does not appeal) plus in house 5 cylinder with "geartronic" torque converters (Yum !), to lighter more efficient 4 cylinder engines with Ainsin Warner 8 speed double clutch Autos across the range - except for AWD and I do want want or need one of those.



I also read that since mid 2015 , the confusing engine/auto gearbox line up is now
T3 4 cylinder 1.5 petrol,
D2 4 cylinder Diesel 120 PS
D3 4 cylinder diesel 150 ps
D4 4 cylinder diesel 190 PS All with ainsin warner 8 speed double clutch auto.

All the 8 speed autos are now called "geartronic" , which led me to think they were all torque converter - but not so.

The only Torque converter model is the D4 AWD - again, not for me. The D5 no longer seems to exist.

I get that these changes are caused by pressure from governments to reduce emmisions, but to find that 2 wheel drive volvos with torque converter gearbox are no longer made is quite a shock to me.
I have yet to speak to an owner who is entirely happy with the 8 speed DSG auto, and I have spoken to one or two that are very unhappy with them .
So for a high spec Volvo with Torque converter that I can plan to keep for 10 years, my choice is used, or used. I just cannot see S60 diesel 8 speed DSG type autos running around the roads of britain with 200,000 miles on them in the future, or am I wrong?

The 8 speed box is just a development of the 6 speed it has a torque converter it is not at all like the Powershift ..

The 1500 will be a 3 cylinder !
There must be a mistake on the volvo web site . ( as usual)

[pont]

Hi Clan and others

The 1.5 is a three cylinder ??? , I stand happily corrected thanks for the info.

Rather like disagreeing with Steven Fry on a Latin translation and while bowing to your obvious knowledge and experience, can I take issue with what you say about the 8 speed gearbox being a torque converter - I know I am in dangerous territory here !

As I understand it, and reading up on this, volvo now offer the Ainsin warner 8 speed gearbox across the range. I take it this must be the AWF 8F 35.
The 8 speed Ainsin Warner AWF 8F 35 has a double clutch, as shown on their website.

Clan I would love you to tell me I am wrong with this... I have had a double clutch auto and it was not a relaxing experience.

I have asked Volvo technicians about this and get blank looks. HJ is the only source I believe, and he says Ainsin Warner 8 speed across the range from 2015. The very high miles per gallon promised (60+) also lead me to believe they cannot be torque converter boxes.
I hope to be shot down in flames ! I so prefer a torque converter. I know Volvo call this a geartronic, but is it what we would all think that means - ie torque converter??

[Julianpms]

The 8-speed Geartronic from Aisin-Warner is definitely a conventional torque converter transmission and not a dual-clutch unit. They had a model of it on their stand at the 2014 Paris motor show. I'm very happy with it on my V60 D4.

[pont]

Good to know you are happy with your 8 speeder.

So may I explain why I am the lone voice of doubt about it being Torque converter.
Its the picture on the ainsin warner site of the 8 speed AWF8F35 gearbox, including its "double-clutch configuration" with arrow pointing to the double clutch, and the words "Owing to its dual clutch configuration, the 8-speed AT is equivalent in length to the 6-speed AT"
I hope you understand why I might be in doubt. The reason for wanting to know is that if the 8 speeder is a torque converter, I am happy, I will buy at my leisure, but if its double clutch, I will buy one of the last torque converter volvos now.
Trouble is, I ask Volvo and their dealers and I get blank looks. The fuel efficiency definately points to DSG type from 2015 on with the 2.0 litre engine.
Perhaps I was unlucky but I had a bad experience with one.

[Clan]

Originally Posted by pont

Good to know you are happy with your 8 speeder.

So may I explain why I am the lone voice of doubt about it being Torque converter.
Its the picture on the ainsin warner site of the 8 speed AWF8F35 gearbox, including its "double-clutch configuration" with arrow pointing to the double clutch, and the words "Owing to its dual clutch configuration, the 8-speed AT is equivalent in length to the 6-speed AT"
I hope you understand why I might be in doubt. The reason for wanting to know is that if the 8 speeder is a torque converter, I am happy, I will buy at my leisure, but if its double clutch, I will buy one of the last torque converter volvos now.
Trouble is, I ask Volvo and their dealers and I get blank looks. The fuel efficiency definately points to DSG type from 2015 on with the 2.0 litre engine.
Perhaps I was unlucky but I had a bad experience with one.

The low fuel consumption comes from the revolutionary new VEA engine .. it has won " engine of the year " awards

[andyg]

I think the AW website description is referring to the internal lock-up clutch that all torque convertor auto boxes have had since about the 1950s. These prevent slippage when the vehicle is cruising in the highest gear, thus improving efficiency of the torque convertor setup. To keep the new 8 gear box within the same overall size as their previous 6 gear model AW have incorporated two smaller lock-up clutches to replace a single, larger one. I am not an expert but that is what I read. Thus the description as a double clutch transmission does not mean it has lost the basic torque convertor configuration.

Clan......?