2006 V70 conversion

[charles p]

Having covered 20,000 miles in the past year in my 2006 V70 2.4 170 auto the economics of an LPG conversion are now clear!

Two questions have to be answered:
1/ Which system to fit - based on a hybrid of reliability, longevity, warranty length and of course not losing any of the character of the 5 cylinder auto
2/ Who to get to fit it - preferably in Suffolk or Essex

Wisdom welcomed

thanks

[capt jack]

As to which kit, the Tartarini system I had fitted in 2005 to my old V70 auto was still going strong 8 years and 250,000 miles later when I sold the car.

It wasn't 100% trouble free in that time. I think I spent perhaps £200 in repairs in all, but it never let me down seriously, and if I were LPG-ing a car again I would have absolutely no hesitation in choosing Tartarini.

It was fitted by the Tartarini UK agents Autogas 2000 in North Yorkshire. Bit out of your parish, but worth a check with them to see if they have an agent local to you.

http://www.autogas.co.uk/

Make sure that you get the biggest tank in the spare wheel well you can, and that you fit nice new plugs before the conversion. And don't be rushed. LPG conversion is a long term commitment, so it's worth shopping around.

Good luck

Jack

[The Thong]

I bought mine with a BRC system. It's very good and works well. If I get another Volvo I'll get another BRC system fitted

TT

[Lpgc]

I am a professional vehicle LPG convertor, have been for many years.

Just a few pointers so you see how advice etc given in very good faith and based on personal experiences can sometimes be misleading...

Going back in time to around 2005 when Captain Jack had his Tartarini system fitted, when it came to modern style LPG systems (these are multi point seuqntial slave type systems) there was really only the choice in the UK of an AEB based system (such as Tartarini, OMVL, Romano, Bigas, Zavoli, etc), or BRC or Prins. Conversions back then were more expensive than they are now because parts were more expensive. On the other hand older Volvo's didn't need extra components such as fuel returns to be installed at the same time as an LPG conversion.

Not to place much emphasis on this point here (as perhaps only a small chance of this) but Captain Jacks's Tartarini system fitted in 2005 might even be an older technology continuous injection system (Tartarini Etagas) which would really be totally unsuitable for any vehicle produced since around year 2000... I could get a modern day V70 working fine on a Tartarini Etagas system but only by using some extra electronic trickery... Any installer would find such a proposition these days as a daft way to approach a modern day conversion because this really is older technology, doesn't give as good results, isn't as reliable and parts are getting harder to source.

These days there are a very wide range of multi point sequential slave type LPG systems available (the correct type for a V70), most will give excellent results on a normally aspirated V70, this really isn't a demanding conversion. In 2005 systems were identified under a single name like the already mentioned Tartarini / BRC, and from such a name installers would generally know which components were fitted (or at least know most of the components fitted, maybe knowing which ECU and reducer but that one of two types of injectors would be fitted). These days components are more generically fitted, so you might find a KME ECU with Tartarini reducer and MagicJet injectors (these ECUs and injectors were not around in 2005). Such systems should not be considered 'mix and match' or diminished in any way, they can indeed make up a better performing and more reliable system than the older style single brand systems, but this means it isn't possible to know what components are fitted by the single brand name anymore. Some of this was already happening in 2005 - e.g. we don't know if Captain Jack's Tartarini system (if sequential) has Tartarini own brand injectors or Matrix injectors, I would much rather have the Matrix injectors as they are far superior performers and longer lived, but these days we can buy Matrix injectors separately and perhaps a better system could be had fitting those Matrix injectors with King ECU with KME reducer... The choices are much wider and most options advised by a reputable installer are at least equally as good as any system from 2005, if not better.

The components which arguably wear the fastest on any LPG system are the injectors, but again these days injectors are generally more reliable and better performing than they were in 2005, though BRC and Prins (Keihin) injectors have hardly changed in all that time. BRC and Prins are still more expensive than other systems but these days it is hard to see any justification for the price difference, many installers see BRC and Prins as trading on past reputation rather than current day system performance / reliability.. They used to have the best injectors but that isn't really the case any more and systems with similarly reliable / performing injectors are much cheaper. Better installers have arguably moved on with the times and see 'old school' installers whom still exclusively fit BRC / Prins or any other 'single name on a box of bits' brand system as behind the times and less likely to be able to offer good advice, certainly when it comes to unbiased advice.

Notes on BRC: In the yard at the moment I have a Toyota Landcruiser V8 fitted with a BRC sequential LPG system. It came in for diagnosis of poor performance, drive-ability and economy and was left with me while the owner is on holiday. I've found one injector has completely broken, the other 7 injectors are rather worn so also really need replacing. BRC injectors are at least £75 each (similar price to Prins Keihin injectors). The owner might decide to repair his BRC system with BRC injectors but this will cost at least £600 in parts alone for 8 injectors. BRC will only work with BRC injectors, or Keihin, or (at a push) similar injectors but all those are in the same price bracket. If we don't replace with BRC injectors the injector wiring connectors will also need to be changed, again adding to repair costs. Installers whom can work on BRC systems are relatively few and far between because BRC have a policy of not officially allowing two BRC installers to exist in the same area. I am one of the few installers who can work on BRC systems but I am not acknowledged as a BRC fitter by BRC, I am one of a few independent LPG installer who has ability/facility to work on BRC systems, most installers avoid them! Not that I like these systems much, I think they are now outdated both in terms of bulky design and performance, are overpriced, under-specced, represent poor value for the customer, after sales servicing costs are also high with the potential of further hassles for customers given the lack of installers who can work on them. On the Landcruiser, if this were most other types of LPG system the ECU would be compatible with a wide range of injectors and would be fitted with standard type injector plugs, so I could choose from a very wide range of injectors, many of which perform as well as BRC yet cost much much less. The Landcruiser owner will have the option of repairing the BRC system (costing as much as a new system) or having a new system fitted with 2yr warranty, both options costing a similar amount. An injector change on most systems would cost less than half as much.

Notes on Tartarini: The Tartarini sequential system is no longer available and neither are those better performing Matrix injectors that Tartarini systems were sometimes fitted with (Matrix are still made but are not as good as the old type). Autogas2000 whom were the suppliers of the Tartarini systems now sell / fit the Lovato system and GFI system - not as well known as Tartarini was back in the day and not as common. I can still repair any Tartarini system (sequential or Etagas) but some parts for the older Etagas system are becoming harder to source.

I am in Yorkshire, would have no problems in installing an LPG system that would deliver the performance and reliability that you of course want. I have pics of workmanship and positive reviews on this forum, would drop you off and pick you up from the train station etc, but you may still prefer to find a more local installer. I have had a quick check but haven't come up with anyone I know of in your area... Maybe others can suggest someone reputable in your area.

Simon
www.Lpgc.co.uk

[capt jack]

The Tartarini system fitted to my old car was the SGI sequential system.

I appreciate that the technology will have moved on from the set up I had, in the same way I guess that the technology in my current 2007 car is somewhat different to that which graced my old '97 V70.

The V70 with the 2.5 10v engine and Fenix 5.2 management system made a good conversion because it was a darn good, robust, and well-made engine, and the engine management system was I think by modern standards, very simple.

The thing is, diesel cars are now more plentiful and and a lot more driver-friendly, and there are petrol-powered chariots with staggeringly good mpg figures. Add this to ever-more sophisticated electronicals and I can see that the LPG conversion business is under a bit of pressure.

I think that I was lucky with LPG in having the car I did, at the time I had it, and with the local LPG expertise at Autogas 2000.

I didn't get another LPG car this time because I found a diesel that ticked all my boxes. When I went car-shopping in 2005 I could not find a decent diesel car in my price range, or which met my needs.

I somehow doubt however that my current car will last as long as the V70, or reach 300,000 miles. Mid-90's Volvos were to my mind just about the pinnacle of automotive engineering.

Jack

[Herestandsaman]

I have 3 volvos on LPG
Best system, classicswede
2nd Prins
3rd BRC crap

[classicswede]

You are certainly doing the miles to make it worth while.

The only half decent installer in your area is stick with fitting BRC and BRC is a pain to service and spares are over priced compared to other systems.

For a good quality installation you will need to be prepared to travel.

With a 2006 model you will also be looking at fitting a fuel return and a valve saver system.

[charles p]

Thanks chaps.

My local trusted garage doesn't know the nearby people who fit only BRC - which is odd in a small market town. Sort of knocks them out of contention, even before any questions about system cost.
There is a place in Essex (Ilford) called EuroLPG who look open minded but I've not heard them mentioned in any forums. http://www.eurolpg.co.uk/ If anyone knows them then any comments either in open forum (or via message if you'd prefer) appreciated.

Why are all the helpful people so far away? Wakefield is vaguely manageable but Angelsey is a hell of a long way! (sorry ClassicSwede, I'm sure it's lovely & you do have a good reputation around these parts).
Like many people getting a system fitted by a spacialist so far away I'd be concerned that any post fitment "niggles" would be a problem over such a distance. Certainly a "1,000 mile" check up would be a pain and would need to be done locally.

I'll ponder over the weekend.

Charles

[capt jack]

Try here:

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/approved-i...ved-installer/

I can appreciate your dilemma. Before I got mine I agonised over who to get to carry out the work. You're aware that once committed there's no going back.

The best thing to do is to pick 3 or 4 possibles based on their web sites, then go for a look and talk to the guys at each. You'll soon get a 'feel' for who's competent to work on your car, and who's not. Membership of a recognised trade association is an absolute must. Also, get a written quote and a statement of warranty etc, and ask to see examples of work done. Ask if they've recently done cars of the same model as yours.

Don't believe anyone who says it can be done in a day, and be suspicious of a firm that's not booked up a few weeks in advance, or wants paying up-front.

LPG is a brilliant money-saving trick - and it pays to do your homework.

Cheers

Jack