Oil types/grades/spec clarification

[DaveNP]

Originally Posted by AndyV7o

Since Ive had all day to dwell on it (and clearly fancy a public conversation with myself ) ...

Keep talking Andy, it's good stuff but most are probably like me and can just about manage errr....ummm...uh-huh as contributions to the conversation

Oil specs are something I've looked at several times over more recent years as running a 20 year old car means oil specs have moved on a lot since the handbook was written and they don't sell some of the preferred products anymore which leaves me standing in the shop wondering 'what is the difference between A3 and C4?' and 'is it backwards compatible?' etc.
My only observation would be that we do get hung up on the X-w-YY figures on oil and from what I can see, especially with the w figure, most of the difference will only be apparent at ambient temperatures outside of the normal range of UK temps.

[AndyV7o]

Yeah, we dont experience the extreme cold where the xW is a major concern. It still helps understand which will circulate quicker upon start-up, and what might be too thick for the engine to shove around, put a 20w in summat specced for a 0w and you're asking for bother, but, ya'd have to be daft to put 20w50 in a modern engine anyway!

The umming and arring is what Im attempting to help people with...

[AndyV7o]

Interesting read re: ZDDP; https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...V2EYI3fTFv7yot

Basically a zddp additive company giving info re: zddp which is very honest to the point it could actually reduce their sales (though the conclusion is that their product is good to use, but in moderation)

[AndyV7o]

Following recent discussions, peopl often ask 'What filter?'

You dont need to spend a lot of money getting the best filters, infact the best filters cost the same or near as damn it as all leading filter brands. There is a difference in filters though.
If you want the best, highest quality filters, simply buy Mahle or Mann, or for more money but the same filter made by either mahle or mann, genuine Volvo.
If you want peace of mind, thats it.
Other filters that are safe to use include Bosch, Cooper, Purflux, Fram black filters (purflux rebranded) but not the orange ones which are very poorly made.

Stay away from Crosland, Filtron, orange Fram filters, and anything cheap/chinesey cos its just not worth it when you are talking perhaps £3 difference in price...

[AndyV7o]

https://youtu.be/bn2bxSrxTIs

Great vid for the layman, you can trust those southern hemisphere folk to cut to the chase!

[AndyV7o]

https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com...-it-important/

[AndyV7o]

https://www.lubrizoladditives360.com...technicians-2/

'Selecting the right engine oil' podcast, a very good listen, disregarding american api donut/starburst which isnt wholly relevant outside USA, ACEA is what we beed and is a better system.

[AndyV7o]

A recent relevant post answer;

Quote:
'Personal experience, but I think thicker oil was what did for my 850, with hydraulic tappets and the need for oil reaching all parts of the engine efficiently putting something thicker in just hampers the proper operation, you'll cause more issues with the bits that did work than 'cure' any possible wear issues. I'd stick with the 0w30.'



Reply:
This is usually people (not commenting on your own reasons -post writer-) getting the wrong end of the stick and, for example, changing 0w30 for 10w40 'cos its better, its thicker so its better' or for example saying '0w30 is way too thin, I use 10w30 cos its an old engine' those kinda things. Its changing the 0w/5w/10w that causes the most trouble. 0 is around 6x thicker at 40° than 30 is at 100° and about 5x thicker than 40 is at 100°. 40° 10 is about 8x thicker than 100° 30 and 7x thicker than 100° 40.
The engine is designed around the oil being hot. So when an engine is designed to run on oil with a viscosity of around 12cst (hot 30) and you put in oil that thickens to around 97cst (40° 10w) instead of around 70cst (40° 0w) at temps exceeding those of our climate in summer, let alone winter, you can get an idea how things are going to get stifled. The pump has to work harder, hydraulic tappets get locked solid, oil reaches places slower...
Changing the latter, hot, number however isnt as much of an issue, if sensible, but can still cause problems. Changing 30 to 40 is going from 12 to 14 cst at 100°. Some people in the 'thicker is better' camp may use 10w60 oil, this is an extremely specialist oil and can actually wreck an engine sooner than protect it.
You also get into hths, which is another very complex story.
A3/B4 are high hths A5/B5 are low hths.
What this means in a (very rudimentary) nutshell is A5/B5 will flow faster/easier for the same viscosity, but has less hydraulic capability in the bearings thus can allow metal-metal much more readily than A3/B4. If we liken it to custard mixed to non-newtonian consistency, you would sink easier in A5/B5 than A3/B4. You could be bigger and slower running across A3/B4 than A5/B5 where you'd need to be light on your feet and quicker. Though the measured static viscosity remains the same, the 'robustness' and pumpability of the oil under pressure differs somewhat. What this means is that you can have a 30 and 40 oil hot, and if they are both the same hths, they are both the same in terms of pumping and 'robustness' in the bearings.
So, dont get hung up on oil myths, stick to what the handbook or an oil specialist tells you.
If it says 0w30, dont go worrying about it 'being too thin' cos you could cause more trouble by going thicker!

[AndyV7o]

Some more info from a discussion about budget oils.

Just bear in mind that cheap oils use cheap additives and 'b' grade base stocks. The result of this is that they seldom retain viscosity and spec throughout an extended oci. Up to 10k theyll be ok, 18k there's a high likelihood you have been running on acidic low viscosity low hths oil which has started leaving deposits as it cant hold them in suspension any longer, or sticky, gummy, oxidised oil thats coating various parts in varnish, in addition to the above.
Now without used/virgin oil analysis over multiple changes and drivers/vehicles, we vannot be said for sure which brand lasts for how long, but, it is known that as above lower quality base oils and additives can and do break down early
Smith & Allen are interesting, they by their stock from shell, its not shell's extremely good gtl stock, again, itll be the stuff they dont use (which could be stuff that doesn't meet their stringent qc for premium oii, or, stuff they have lots of but use little of because it isnt of use for many of their products) that said, it still may be decent stock for a budget oil. We dont know what/who's additives are used.
Whilst using cheap oil isnt going to cause an instant painful engine death, it is wise practice to halve the oci if using it. That said, even flagship oils are struggling by 18k.
Roughly speaking, dependent on variables, the ideal maximum lifespan of oils is around 8-10k for cheap (though there are some I wouldnt go more than 6k) and 15-16k for premium.
Also, bear in mind 'meets' and 'approved' on the oils spec. Most cheap oils 'meet' but arent 'approved' which means they are claiming to be up to spec, but nobody has tested or verified this to be true. Approved is certified to meet spec. Approved oils cost a lot more because the approval has to be paid for in addition to the more costly ingredients.
So buying cheap oil is like making a banggood or wish purchase, it may or may not do what it says on the tin, you just dont know!
There are also those who think 'its all the same, it comes into the country on the same boat' no, there are a few big 'boats' from a few big crude sources, and yes most oil -made here- comes from one or the other 'big boats' but that is refracted crude, waaaaay before it becomes base oil, waaaaay before that then becomes engine oil, the final product can vary wildly.

At the end of the day, its down to the viewpoint of the person paying for and driving the vehicle, but its better if that decision is reached with a more comprehensive knowledge.
Yer pays yer money....

[theblackhole]

Thanks for the post. I have a XC60 T6 AWD R Design 2.0. I live in Japan and dealer is far away from home. I want to start doing oil changes at home. The manual says Castrol Edge Professional. all I can find here is Castrol Edge 0W-20 FE. Is that good? https://item.rakuten.co.jp/simons-st...CABEgIHAvD_BwE