Problems with classicswede

[SonyVaio]

Originally Posted by classicswede

This is an important question and needs answering.


Back when the LPGA was still the LPGA there were two types of certificates issued by installers. Installers certificate as per what I still use can be issued by a trained LPG installer. LPGA members certificate that looks like a old type MOT one. They do not look anything alike.
Now that it has changed to UKLPG their members no longer issue a certificate, the conversion is just registered on the data base. Non member installers still issue certificates.

The big problem with the LPGA/UKLPG that all installations are self certified. I and many other installers agree that all conversions should be checked out in a similar way to the SVA to assure quality and correct operation of every conversion. The testing network is there they just need the right training and it would do the Automotive LPG industry the world of good. There is absolutly no arguing that is a better method.

A simple question I have after the above statement is:

How can you be issuing a self certified Certificate on behalf of a LPG governing body (LPGA) when that body does not even exist any longer and has not done for many years now?? You can't be issuing them on behalf of UKLPG as you have already stated yourself earlier in the thread you are NOT a member? Surely any right you had to issue a certificate died when the governing body you were a member of 'LPGA' ceased to exist??

This would be like taking your car in for an MoT where you were say once an MoT tester but are no longer an MoT tester. Then someone bringing their car to you and you doing an MoT on their vehicle and issuing them an old manual certificate that is not on the required computer database?? The certificate nor the MoT would not be valid and in this particular scenario you would be in very big trouble??

Why it is so different with your LPG installations and the Certificates you are issuing for these??

I can understand you doing installations to COP11 standard and then having them fully checked and certified by an actual registered and qualified installer. If this were to be the case then you would have supplied the relevant certificates for your installs to the relevant people in this thread? These Certificates would then be signed by the qualified installer that is actually certifying the installation and NOT by you?

[classicswede]

Now this thread needs cleaning up a little and only address the Ford explorer.

With ref the ford explorer.

I will not go right back to the beginning but starting back to the report of the LPG leak. The customer arranged to have the vehicle recovered back to Anglesey via AA/RAC or similar. The leak was checked and confirmed to be a faulty tank. A replacement tank was ordered and fitted all at my expense as you would expect. I even offered to deliver the car back to the customer but the offer was refused.

I have received no further complaint from the CUSTOMER.

This thread has been started by a third party and the complaint are all coming from a third party.

I am now sending a written letter to the CUSTOMER so that IF there is issues we put together an action plan to resolve any such problems. Until I have received correspondence back from the customer I do not feel it appropriate to continue with this third party thread discussing his conversion.

[deathrider311271]

The third party as you put it is his bloody SON

[SonyVaio]

I and I think others would be very greatful if you were to answer my post above on Certificates and Certification??

If you are doing things perfectly legally then why wouldn't want to quash anything that may harm your future business? It is not as if the questions are in any way hard, they just need a simple honest answer.

By your last statement it sounds like the questions are getting too dificult for you to answer so your now thowing up all barriers and will now only correspond with the actual customer. Talk about putting your head in the sand.

[Burdekin]

I'm no expert and just been reading the thread. I'm not commenting on the quality of the work but regarding the certification from what I can gather there is no legal requirement for Dai to be a member of any Body such as UKLPG. I would say he can legally write his own certs if he is a competent person and if installed as per COP11. UKLPG are only a trade organisation and there is no legal requirement to be a member and therefore they are not a governing body and do not legally regulate the industry.

Some reading:
http://www.diy-lpg.co.uk/articles/fi...nversions.html
http://www.uklpg.org/about-uklpg/ukl...ed-installers/
http://www.lpginfo.co.uk/lpga.html

It seems unbelievable to me but it looks like anyone can do installations and you are pretty much up the creek without an oar if they do a bad job or they don't want to help put things right, unless they have used items that do not comply to the EU standard.

[Thanatos]

Right lets clear this up as you say that you offered to deliver the car back well nor me or my dad can remember anything of the sort we can remember asking you to bring it back on the sunday that you said it would be done for but then didn't do the tank till the tuesday after that.

and how are you going to be sending the letter when you dont have the customers address?

[Thanatos]

Re the letter Dai Please read the txt message from my father who says to deal with his third party ME

Now Please can we have answers to POST 63

[SonyVaio]

So why is Dai issuing Certificates that are headed as LPGA with what I guess is an installer certified number (120610)? If he is just acting on his own doing an install he wouldn't be ripping off and providing certificates which no longer exist or mean anything as the body itself no longer exists?

I guess he is using these old certificates because it looks good and official when really it isn't wotrth the paper it is written on.

On one of my previos posts I specifically asked about the tanks themself being 10 years old and the fact the manufacturer puts an expiry on the tanks of being 10 years old. No answer has yet been given.

If the LPG industry is not properly regulated and ANYONE can just do it then that is a very sad state of affairs. Ludicrous infact! When you are playing about with highly flamible gas/liquid under great pressures etc... you would expect nothing less than a fully qualified and certified installer to the job??? Bit like with a gas install for your house and the need to be Corgi Registered etc...??

[940_Turbo]

He isn't issuing his own certificates, he is issuing an 'LPGA Code of Practice 11 Certificate'

How can he possibly be issuing a certificate in the name of an organisation that turned into UKLPG over 4 years ago?

This isn't about whether we can install our own LPG kit. These vehicles were taken to someone who charged customers money for a professional job. The vehicles are not on the database which is increasingly a requirement from insurance companies. At the very least that should have been made clear to the paying customer. What is the point of paying for a professional job if you end up with something you could have bodged together yourself?

Originally Posted by mitch1971

I'm no expert and just been reading the thread. I'm not commenting on the quality of the work but regarding the certification from what I can gather there is no legal requirement for Dai to be a member of any Body such as UKLPG. I would say he can legally write his own certs if he is a competent person and if installed as per COP11. UKLPG are only a trade organisation and there is no legal requirement to be a member and therefore they are not a governing body and do not legally regulate the industry.

Some reading:
http://www.diy-lpg.co.uk/articles/fi...nversions.html
http://www.uklpg.org/about-uklpg/ukl...ed-installers/
http://www.lpginfo.co.uk/lpga.html

It seems unbelievable to me but it looks like anyone can do installations and you are pretty much up the creek without an oar if they do a bad job or they don't want to help put things right, unless they have used items that do not comply to the EU standard.

[Laney760]

http://www.drivelpg.co.uk/


If you enter a car reg on the 'Central online register of vehicles converted or inspected and passed by UKLPG Approved Autogas Installers' on the above link and the car is not registered, this is the message you get below (and from all I have read you would need to carry out the step in bold if you want to be sure of a straightforward issuing of a car insurance certificate):




This Vehicle, is not on the Register. Please follow the appropriate option below:

o If an LPGA Approved Conversion Certificate (click here for information) is held, this should be forwarded to the address below by special delivery for verification and free entry on the Register.

o If the LPG conversion was by the vehicle manufacturer this will be shown on the V5 Registration document in the model details (usually as Bi-fuel or Dual Fuel). If this is the case send a copy of page 2 of the V5 to UKLPG to arrange free entry for the Vehicle on the Register.

o If neither of the above then the vehicle should be taken to a UKLPG Approved Autogas Installer (click here for search facility to find the nearest one to you) to be inspected and if satisfactory to be placed on the Register. There will be a charge by the installer for this work – this may vary depending on the vehicle and the installer will be able to give you a quotation.

Autogas Administrator
UKLPG
PO Box 6121
Kenilworth
Warwickshire
CV8 9BS