Problems with classicswede

[940_Turbo]

Yup, and it's historic, my own 940 is on the register and it was converted back in 2004.

[Burdekin]

Originally Posted by 940_Turbo

He isn't issuing his own certificates, he is issuing an 'LPGA Code of Practice 11 Certificate'

How can he possibly be issuing a certificate in the name of an organisation that turned into UKLPG over 4 years ago?

This isn't about whether we can install our own LPG kit. These vehicles were taken to someone who charged customers money for a professional job. The vehicles are not on the database which is increasingly a requirement from insurance companies. At the very least that should have been made clear to the paying customer. What is the point of paying for a professional job if you end up with something you could have bodged together yourself?

That's not my interpretation of the certificate. LPGA Code of Practice is a recommended level for the installation and Dai or any other Tom Dick or Harry can write their own cert like the one he gave you. My understanding of what he has given you is a certificate saying that it has been installed to the LPGA COP11, it doesn't say he is a member or qualified in any way with LPGA. Why it doesn't say UKLPG COP11, Dai would have to answer.

That is also for the guys who went to him to ask themselves why they also didn't ask. I personally would have thought that this would be a tightly regulated industry but it appears that it is far from it. What you have got regarding the certification is Dai has said it is installed as per COP11, if it hasn't you have recourse in my opinion.

[940_Turbo]

I don't think so, it is specifically headed 'LPGA Code of Practice 11 Certificate'

Apart from that one of the reasons the whole database was moved online was to stamp out fake certificates. My own car has a genuine LPGA certificate and it has a phone number on it to check whether its genuine.

I'm not sure whether that's even the point though. Assume anyone can issue their own certificate, and that is legal and acceptable. Surely the installation should comply with the current regulations, not the regulations from a defunct body that ceased to exist over 4 years ago? There is no such thing as an LPGA code of practice because the LPGA doesn't exist.

[Laney760]

Originally Posted by 940_Turbo

I don't think so, it is specifically headed 'LPGA Code of Practice 11 Certificate'

Apart from that one of the reasons the whole database was moved online was to stamp out fake certificates. My own car has a genuine LPGA certificate and it has a phone number on it to check whether its genuine.

I'm not sure whether that's even the point though. Assume anyone can issue their own certificate, and that is legal and acceptable. Surely the installation should comply with the current regulations, not the regulations from a defunct body that ceased to exist over 4 years ago? There is no such thing as an LPGA code of practice because the LPGA doesn't exist.

In 2008 it was legitimate for installers to sign their own cop11 forms, that must have been before UKLPG approved fitters came into the equation, so I would imagine that fitters who are not UKLPG approved are still signing their own certificates maybe? Surely if the cop11 certificate was not enough to keep an insurance company happy we would have heard of it before now from other members who have had systems fitted by Dai, there have been no reports of other members having problems with insurance companies??

Quote from

http://www.diy-lpg.co.uk/articles/fi...nversions.html which is dated 2008

"Now I’m OK, I’ve been on a course and have a certificate to say that I am, in the vernacular used in CoP11, a “competent person” - ie “a person with knowledge, training and ability to carry out their work safely and with the necessary proficiency to ensure the subsequent safe operation of the vehicle.” This means I can write my own certificate and certify that my own work meets the standards - does anyone spot the flaw in that ? Yes, whether it’s just someone who’s done a course, or an LPGA member, the person certifying the work is the one that did it - and of course you are going to fail your own work aren’t you ! And did I mention that the LPGA would like to make this a closed shop so that ONLY a full LPGA member can do the work or write certificates."

[Burdekin]

Originally Posted by 940_Turbo

I don't think so, it is specifically headed 'LPGA Code of Practice 11 Certificate'

Apart from that one of the reasons the whole database was moved online was to stamp out fake certificates. My own car has a genuine LPGA certificate and it has a phone number on it to check whether its genuine.

I'm not sure whether that's even the point though. Assume anyone can issue their own certificate, and that is legal and acceptable. Surely the installation should comply with the current regulations, not the regulations from a defunct body that ceased to exist over 4 years ago? There is no such thing as an LPGA code of practice because the LPGA doesn't exist.

The problem is the UKLPG is a trade organisation with no authority and COP11 is only a code of practice issued by a trade organisation, it is not a government regulation.

This is going to sound harsh but for whatever work you get done on your car you can take it to an approved and qualified organisation or a backyard guy. But your point is that you've paid good money for the job and it should be done to an acceptable standard with the correct parts which I totally agree with, but as Dai is not accredited or associated with anyone it's harder to get problems rectified. I would now take it to a UKLPG qualified installer now, get an assessment and quote for bringing it up to COP11 standard as that is what you have paid for and then take it from there with Dai or go to trading standards or small claims if he won't pay to get the car done properly.

[Laney760]

Having been reading through a lot of lpg forums on the net it seems that you get good and bad fitters who are UKLPG approved and you get good and bad fitters who are not UKLPG approved. It also seems that if you have problems with a UKLPG approved fitter's work, UKLPG don't want to know and the certificate expires after four years anyway

[Bristol603]

Originally Posted by Bristol603

I first read this thread when I returned from my holiday a couple of weeks ago. At that very time my Amazon 122S was with Dai having an LPG conversion fitted. This was the first dealing I had ever had with Dai. I collected my Amazon two weeks ago and have now done 1000 miles on LPG.

The car is running very well. It hasn't missed a beat since I collected it. The car returns 31mpg on petrol and returns 26mpg on LPG, which is exactly in line with my expectations. Power and throttle response are better on petrol, but the engine runs smoother on LPG.

This morning I took my Amazon to my local garage for them to check over the LPG installation. I have been taking my cars to this local garage for 10+ years and I know and trust the mechanics there. Until a couple of years ago, this local garage also fitted LPG conversions themselves and so I thought them well placed to give me an independent and informed opinion upon the LPG installation Dai had done for me. My mechanic had no idea who had done the conversion.

The verdict from my independent and informed local mechanic was, and I quote exactly, that the conversion done by Dai on my Amazon was "a very good job" and had been performed safely and in accordance with the conversion guidelines. I specifically asked them whether they would change anything in the installation and they said no.

I am a happy customer.

I sent the "certificate" Dai gave me to my insurer Footman James (part of AON). Footman James have today confirmed that they have noted my Amazon as converted to LPG and there is no change in premium. There was no problem with Dai's certificate.

[Thanatos]

farmers insurance on the explorer wont do it without its on the register same as axa they will only insure it if its on the register and isn't a diy install

[Thanatos]

We have received the letter from dai and will update more later

[Bendolfc]

Looks like Dai has been banned as he didn't respond as asked to by the owners of the site.