Hybrid Turbos by Dan Jones. Article No 5 in a Series by Experts in the Industry

[v40jlt4]

Holy cow!! Is this thread AWOL or what? It feels/seems like I've logged on to a forum about politics and/or religion. What the .... is going on here?
Several of these posts are packed with underlying frustration/anger from other/previous topics/discussions.

Now some on-topic typing:

A hybrid turbo is a blend. One taketh 2 turbo's with different caracteristics and makes a blend, preferably the best of both worlds.

I know that by definition you could make a hybrid that combines the worst of both worlds, but that would be stupid, so why do it :-)

You embark on the hybrid adventure in order to make a turbo that is tailored to your specific needs/wants. Still, it'll be a trade-off.
I want a turbo with NO lag, huge CFM figure and a direct fit (cheaper to fit). NO such thing exists!

Like my hybrid for example (not from TT btw). I really wanted a 19T in my V40.
I was told lag would be more than with the 14T (Pyaap's car proved that this isn't exactly true). I needed adapter plates, oil return lines etc etc (more money) or maybe even a new exhaust manifold!. The 19T could take me up to 340HP (but the stock internals cannot), All I wanted is a V40 with about 300HP.

In my case it turned out that a hybrid was the answer. A TD04-14T with a Big16G compressor wheel shuffed in it.

Very cost effective way to reach 300HP. Is a 19T better? It IS capable of delivering more Horses!? Not in my case, I want 300 HP with minimal efford (money).

Is the hybrid the BEST turbo for every-one, hardly. Like always, YMMV!

Just my 2 cents

[foggyjames]

Hehe...now it's not THAT big ;-) Griz is quite right, for a truck turbo, it's a baby internally - big housings, (relatively) small wheels.

At the moment, it's an ornament. It was everyone's favourite price (thanks to V6 Man) as it had been sat in a field for x years attached to a scrap Volvo truck engine (yes, it has a Volvo part number!!). It needs significant work before it can even be considered for use, but at least it might be a viable unit to exhange for a re-con unit.

The dark plan is that it adorns a (somewhat internally non-standard :)) B5254 (probably, although I need to work more on the precise details there) in a 340 bodyshell...;) Although I'm probably getting there via a different route, we're talking about Andy Williams power levels. That's a long way off though, so don't hold your breath! A 'stock' 2.5 "+Turbo" engine might find its way into the bodyshell within two years, put it that way!

cheers

James

[foggyjames]

Tell you what...spend as long searching for information on turbos as you do on quotes (nice quotes indeed btw ;)), and I'll have no objections :)

I hope you gathered from my tone that I've nothing against you, and I hope we can meet up at a CB meet and I can buy you a pint (or something...!...that is NOT an open invitation for everyone :9 :D).

Take it easy :)

cheers

James

[adieu]

>I hope you gathered from my tone that I've nothing against
>you, and I hope we can meet up at a CB meet and I can buy you
>a pint



BEER WHERE!!!!!!!!

No offense taken, to be honest I admit to knowing a little about everything but much about nothing. Turbo's are TT's domain not mine.


Oh and i'll have a larger shandy at the next CB.....lol

And my last quote for today.....

I owe my success to having listened respectfully to the very best advice, and then going away and doing the exact opposite.
G. K. Chesterton (1874 - 1936)

:-)

Regards

Iain

Hi guys

I worked on gas turbines - 'turbos you can stand in'.
I'm an engineer but I don't know much about the technology in car turbos.

What I do know is the following.

You get a pump or any compression device and put energy in it to drive it (rotation) and it will deliver a certain flow against a certain pressure. This develops a curve. For a standard pump the curve tends to fall. I'll demonstrate:

Pressure generated
[___ +
[ ----+- ______ +
[ + ---__ +
[ + --__ +
[ £ -
[ £ & -
[________________£___________&______-._________
Flow
There is fluid flowing through vanes (that are in motion perpendicular to the flow direction), the flow is turbulent and the vane angle is fixed. The resistance the vane creates in the flow is proportional to this 'angle of attack' and the flow velocity. ..anyway.. what all this means is that the efficiency of the unit varies, typically generating a maximum efficiency at some point on the flow curve (the +'s). This is the point. In the case of a turbo you have two curves - a curve for the compressor wheel and a different one for the turbine. You don't want a turbo to operate where the efficiency is low (&) - sure it'll do the job but it will be inefficent. You want it to operate across the peak efficiency range.

The point is that to design a turbo you need both these curves and you want to hit the areas of peak efficiency.

Ultimately Iain, I'm sorry but clearly you could benefit from this. The point is that if vt don't want to give you the curves you're not going to get them and I would very much doubt that any turbo company will - I don't know about these A/R ratios and suchstuff but I do know that the curves will design the flywheels and therefore the turbo (don't argue this, anybody).

To explain how heating occurs - as the effciency drops the further along the curve you go, you'll find that a lower proportion of total driven power actually gets imparted to producing flow, the rest goes into the fluid as heat - so the temperature of the fluid rises.

Normally in pumps etc you get separate curves for flow v's 1 - Pressure, 2 efficiency, 3 required suction pressure(stalling) and 4 power. You can look up any website or google this.

The above is applicable to any pump or compressor and is quite basic engineering - you can google it and get as much info you want. Naturally the research goes further into math models for scaling and computational flow design etc etc.. and the above is a simple represenation of the total level of knowledge around.

That's my tuppence - hope it helps the uninitiated. I am stuck for time and will not respond to replies.

regards

Ken

tried to post a curve but this is easier - shows all 4 curves aswell.
Ken
http://www.coleparmer.com/techinfo/t...dPumpCurve.htm

[foggyjames]

Now that's a bit more like it - a well informed post!

I'll add to that something specific to car turbos...
http://www.turbocalculator.com/how-to-read.html

cheers

James