850/T5 suspension & brake upgrades

Hi people

I want to improve the handling and braking of my lovely new (to me) 850 T5 estate, before moving onto the engine..However I have become a tad confused as to what sequence of changes to make. Here is alist of my proposed changes starting with the most important and working down......

1. strut brace - done
2. lowering suspension - I can have got the eibach springs, but have also got poss of T5R springs & shock assemblies with self levelling rears....which route would you take?
3. brakes - change to larger front R brakes
4. fit thicker R front/rear anti roll bars
5. fit powerflex wishbone bushes

I would be very gratefu for your thoughts to guide me out of the fog

thanks

yours confused and impatient

TG3

[Grizlyadams]

IPD do a nice range of thicker anti roll bars, i have 25/25mm bars on my 945 and it totaly transformed the old girl. Lower it, shove some bilstien sports on and bob's ya uncle...(or the moderator)
Griz

[ravennexus]

i'd see what angle your control arms are at stock before i'd go lowering. i've just delowered my 240 due to this.

with it lowered the control arms were angled upwards which causes a reduction of negative camber when you hit a bump or load it up conering.

back at stock hieght it actually has more front end grip due to the arms angled downwards which gives an increase in neg camber when it hits a bump or loaded up. while roll is still controlled due to better anti-roll bars stiffer springs.

Hi there

Strut brace is a very good starting point!

Are the Eibachs new and the t5r springs second hand? if so stick with the eibachs. It will cost you approx and extra £150 to upgrade your hangers for your front brakes, does your driving style really warrent this, if so it is def worth doing.

The thicker antiroll bars probably work quite well however a decent 'dynamic' shock such as koni FSD or munroe reflex should negate the need for them.

Powerflex wishbone bushes are a good idea and are relatively cheap upgrade.

Hope this helps

Natxx

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by ravennexus

i'd see what angle your control arms are at stock before i'd go lowering. i've just delowered my 240 due to this.

with it lowered the control arms were angled upwards which causes a reduction of negative camber when you hit a bump or load it up conering.

back at stock hieght it actually has more front end grip due to the arms angled downwards which gives an increase in neg camber when it hits a bump or loaded up. while roll is still controlled due to better anti-roll bars stiffer springs.

Don't want to teach you how to suck eggs, but this is the chassis spec of a 240 GLT I built for the road back in 90's. She V Maxed out at 140 mph (engine spec another story) and cornered nearly as good as a standard 4 door Cossie lol.

Volvo 240 GLT Saloon 1984my

Ride & Handling Modifications
For
Fast Road

Introduction

The high Polar Moment of Inertia inherent in this vehicle due to the length of the wheelbase and weight distribution must be reduced, while at the same time increasing the mechanical and aerodynamic coefficient of friction
.
The object being to improve the following at all speeds under trailing or part and full throttle applications: -

• The vehicles turn in and stability during entry to a corner.
• The vehicles settle ability mid corner.
• The vehicles stability on exit.
• The vehicles straight-line stability.
• The vehicles lane change stability.

Therefore retaining the vehicles original safe and balanced attitude while achieving superior ride and handling.

Front Suspension.

Vehicle Stance. Standard / no load / half tank fuel.

Springs. Using the original spring fitted lengths, specification and vehicle weight, increase the rate by 20% and lower 50mm.

Dampers. Fit Pro-Boge Sports specification gas dampers. With this specification the spring and damper frequency is balanced.

Anti-roll bar. Fit 23mm specification anti-roll bar (Ambulance).

Components. Re-drill suspension strut lower ball joint location points to within 1mm of outer and forward planes and machine stud unit to fit. Weld stud unit to lower arm.

Bushes and Ball joints. All should be in an excellent serviceable condition. While nylon bushes or a full rose jointed system would yield further improvements, their NVH and serviceability disadvantages would probably out way the advantages over original specification components for road use (maybe).

Braces. Not used. The top strut brace could be considered together with lower brace as fitted to turbo 760s etc. Thought however should be given to how much stiffness is actually required from the chassis for road use and the consequential effect on chassis balance when used in association with the modifications detailed in this paper.

Camber. Balance adjustable slide mounts on suspension strut tops to give between 1.0 and 2.0 degrees negative camber on both front wheels. Straight-line stability weighed against cornering ability will determine your settings.

Caster. Which has little or no effect on handling only on feel and return ability of steering, will increase by approx. 60% – 80% on original specification, but will be dependant on vehicle tolerances.

Toe. Tracking should be set to 1mm total toe in tolerance + 1mm.

Note. The tracking adjustment is critical and will affect objectives listed previously.


Rear Suspension

Springs. Using the original spring fitted lengths, specification and vehicle weight, increase the rate by 20% and lower 22mm.

Dampers. Fit Pro-Boge Sports specification gas dampers. With this specification the spring and damper frequency is now balanced front to rear. Anti-roll bar. Retain standard GLT bar.

Components. Cut and shut two late type hollow pannard rods, shorten and overlap to square axle to front track using solid bush ends. Pannard rod should be parallel with axle.

Anti-Tramp Bars / Upper Arms. Shorten arms to align axle pinion to gearbox output shaft. Use solid bushes as found in pannard rod to replace the bushes in anti-tramp bars / upper axle location arms.

Bushes. All bushes should be in an excellent serviceable condition. While nylon bushes or a full rose jointed system would yield further improvements, their NVH and serviceability disadvantages would probably out way the advantages over original specification components for road use (maybe).

Wheels and Tyres. 7x15 with offset bias to outside of wheel arch, gives needed increase in track front and rear. 205/50x15 VR Avon’s. Ease arches if necessary.

Tyre Pressures. Driver / Half Tank Fuel. 1.8 bar F+R normal. 2.3 bar F+R high speed

Note. You may wish to change pressures depending on load.

Body. Remove both front and rear bumper assemblies and combination damper units. Replace covers and secure to body lips and original side mounted slides. Cut and shut late 360 rear bumper insert and affix to lower lip of front spoiler. Fitment of rear 240 turbo wing might be beneficial during very high speed cornering, but not tried.

[ravennexus]

not to turn this into a 240 thread but i delowered it due to skitter and lack of feel/grip at the front end

springs are stock 242GT stuff, 35% stiffer at the front stock rate at the back, shocks are volvo R-sport rallycross hard all round.100/350 NM bound/rebound F and 100/400NM bound/rebound rear. various other stuff

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by ravennexus

not to turn this into a 240 thread but i delowered it due to skitter and lack of feel/grip at the front end

springs are stock 242GT stuff, 35% stiffer at the front stock rate at the back, shocks are volvo R-sport rallycross hard all round.100/350 NM bound/rebound F and 100/400NM bound/rebound rear. various other stuff

You can't have read and digested the spec I posted in 8 mins lol. Sounds like your car is in understeer mode IMHO as I said not trying to teach you how to suck eggs only offering an option/opinion. Your choice if you decide to use it or not.

Cheers

Gary.

[MissDMeanor]

Phewww Engineer, it must've taken ages to type that - thanks, it makes interesting reading

Hello Tigger3

I've got a T5R but it had the smaller 280mm dics which I've had upgraded to the 302mm - a must for anyone, in my opinion, as I was shocked at how quickly I managed to cook the originals.

I have IPD anti-sway bars which are great but I had to have them shipped over from the US (someone somewhere at sometime was talking about a group buy...).

My suspension is original and rather dubious so I'm thinking of upgrading to something better. My 850 has self-levelling suspension as standard but I've been advised to do away with it in the interest of better handling (I'm afraid I don't know/understand why).

The powerflex bushes sounds a good idea as does the lowered springs....

Good luck and keep as updated as to which route you go

[ravennexus]

Originally Posted by Engineer

You can't have read and digested the spec I posted in 8 mins lol. Sounds like your car is in understeer mode IMHO as I said not trying to teach you how to suck eggs only offering an option/opinion. Your choice if you decide to use it or not.

Cheers

Gary.

oh i read and digested it. doesn't do alot of understeer, turn in in excellent and handling has a slight oversteer bias wether lowered or not but when lowered it the front end reacted badly to mid corner bumps..

There is a reason for the race car volvo spaced down the lower ball joints and rod ends on the track rods.

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by ravennexus

oh i read and digested it. doesn't do alot of understeer, turn in in excellent and handling has a slight oversteer bias wether lowered or not but when lowered it the front end reacted badly to mid corner bumps..

There is a reason for the race car volvo spaced down the lower ball joints and rod ends on the track rods.

Hi Julie, not really just copy and paste from old notes lol.

Having not driven the car I was basing my comment regarding understeer on your "skitter and lack of feel/grip at the front end" quote. I can see why the race car low ball joint was moded and then the track rod end to match it for toe steer reasons. Do you ever go to the CB meets? we could have a good chat on ride & handling.