240 General: New (to me) 1980 Volvo 244

[john.wigley]

Ah, yes, six volt systems ...

The aforementioned Ford that I referenced earlier today in connection with Redex had one, as did the later R4 that I spoke of some time ago. It was seldom possible to use the self-starter on the Ford, even in summer, and the lights on both would not excite an amorous glow-worm. At least the Renault had a more robust charging system and the luxury of flashing indicators.

In stark contrast, I once also owned an NSU Prima five-star scooter. A magnificent machine, very advanced for 1960. It had a 12 volt system with a Siba Dynastart unit. The makers obviously had full confidence in it, as they did not bother to fit a kick-starter. Only on one or two very rare occasions in the depths of winter did it become necessary to 'bump' start that machine.

As I said, happy days ...

Regards, John.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by john.wigley

Ah, yes, six volt systems ...

The aforementioned Ford that I referenced earlier today in connection with Redex had one, as did the later R4 that I spoke of some time ago. It was seldom possible to use the self-starter on the Ford, even in summer, and the lights on both would not excite an amorous glow-worm. At least the Renault had a more robust charging system and the luxury of flashing indicators.

In stark contrast, I once also owned an NSU Prima five-star scooter. A magnificent machine, very advanced for 1960. It had a 12 volt system with a Siba Dynastart unit. The makers obviously had full confidence in it, as they did not bother to fit a kick-starter. Only on one or two very rare occasions in the depths of winter did it become necessary to 'bump' start that machine.

As I said, happy days ...

Regards, John.

Yes, happy days - we are kindred spirits in this respect.

6v electrics are part of the charm on the Bloop. It has an magneto/dynamo so the ignition will run fine without the battery. If the engine stops only the brake light remains illuminated - which could cause something of a scary moment if one stalled the motor (remember - no electric starter) whilst turning right on a busy road at night - the brake light only works on the rear (foot) brake - eeeeek!

That is what the bike is all about though - that was acceptable 44 years ago, but wouldn't be today - which is the whole point of running a bike (or car) from that era.

:-)

PS. Come on England (cricket)!

[Laird Scooby]

Only worked on one 6V system and that was an old Beetle. Even the 1927 Roller i worked on was a 12V system - i suspect it had been converted at some point though.

Biggest headache i had with the 6V system was getting my head round half the voltage but twice the current.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Only worked on one 6V system and that was an old Beetle. Even the 1927 Roller i worked on was a 12V system - i suspect it had been converted at some point though.

Biggest headache i had with the 6V system was getting my head round half the voltage but twice the current.

6v systems have some advantages: the wires are thicker, so are the filaments in incandescent bulbs and so tend to be more robust. On the whole they are much less reliable though - the voltage budget is so small that it is hard to ensure components get enough current, particularly on chassis earthed (-ve return) systems. It only takes a bit of rust or a loose screw to increase the resistance too high for 6v to overcome.

The electrical system on the Bloop is so simple: just a magnet on the end of the crankshaft and three coils: one is the magneto for the engine (CB points/condenser and a coil - that is it) the other two power the lights and charge the battery. There are two (factory) alternative ways of wiring these two so one may either have bright lights or a well charged battery, but not really both at the same time. It does have just one piece of modern (for 1976) technology though: a solid state rectifier (it is just a semiconductor diode - cuts off half the wave) - which was quite new business in the 1970s.

To its credit the Bloop's electrics work exactly as they would have when it left the factory, but that does not make it safe on modern roads (see above). I probably wouldn't ride the Bloop on a public road after dark.

All the above is part of the charm of the Bloop. I could probably convert it to 12v and CDI ignition with parts from a later bike, but that would ruin it. I like to keep the bike looking just as if someone stepped off it in 1986 (the last year it was taxed - it still has that tax disk in the holder) having used it to ride to work for a shift at the shoe factory in Desborough:



:-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

The electrical system on the Bloop is so simple: just a magnet on the end of the crankshaft and three coils: one is the magneto for the engine (CB points/condenser and a coil - that is it) the other two power the lights and charge the battery. There are two (factory) alternative ways of wiring these two so one may either have bright lights or a well charged battery, but not really both at the same time. It does have just one piece of modern (for 1976) technology though: a solid state rectifier (it is just a semiconductor diode - cuts off half the wave) - which was quite new business in the 1970s.

Isn't marketing wonderful? Solid-state aka semiconductor diodes have been around since WW II and consisted primarily of a P and N junction where one was positive and the other was negative. In 1948 William Shockly successfully managed to create a PNP junction (or it might have been NPN, can't remember now) but that is better known as the transistor. By the very nature of the construction and development, semiconductor diodes had to come before transistors.

If memory serves correctly, the diode on the Bloop was to prevent the battery discharging into the magneto at low engine speeds and turning it into a motor.

Proper half-wave rectification needs 2 diodes and full wave needs 4 diodes, usually arranged as a rectifier bridge. I suspect the voltage regulator/rectifier will have one or arrangement or the other. If the batterys main function on the Bloop is to keep the brake light alive if the engine stops, it won't need to be a big battery and nor will the charging system need to be that great. Bright lights would be the option i'd choose from the magneto outputs!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

Isn't marketing wonderful? Solid-state aka semiconductor diodes have been around since WW II and consisted primarily of a P and N junction where one was positive and the other was negative. In 1948 William Shockly successfully managed to create a PNP junction (or it might have been NPN, can't remember now) but that is better known as the transistor. By the very nature of the construction and development, semiconductor diodes had to come before transistors.

If memory serves correctly, the diode on the Bloop was to prevent the battery discharging into the magneto at low engine speeds and turning it into a motor.

Proper half-wave rectification needs 2 diodes and full wave needs 4 diodes, usually arranged as a rectifier bridge. I suspect the voltage regulator/rectifier will have one or arrangement or the other. If the batterys main function on the Bloop is to keep the brake light alive if the engine stops, it won't need to be a big battery and nor will the charging system need to be that great. Bright lights would be the option i'd choose from the magneto outputs!

Yes, I chose brighter (not exactly bright) lights over battery charging, hence the indicators not waking up until I'd got top Morrisons :-)

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Yes, I chose brighter (not exactly bright) lights over battery charging, hence the indicators not waking up until I'd got top Morrisons :-)

I believe (but not sure) the charging options (i.e. more battery charging and dimmer lights instead of vice versa) can be changed fairly easily on a lot of bikes, does yours fall into that category Alan?

I wonder if an electronic flasher relay would improve matters with the indicators? Or is it a case of them functioning ok after a relatively short distance so not worth worrying about?

A note on the above post - it should have been William Shockley but a typo meant i missed the e out of his name - tried editing it and was presented with "Error 403 - you don't have permission....."

Not to worry, it's early on a monday and the forum is probably struggling to wake up, just like me!

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Laird Scooby

I believe (but not sure) the charging options (i.e. more battery charging and dimmer lights instead of vice versa) can be changed fairly easily on a lot of bikes, does yours fall into that category Alan?

I wonder if an electronic flasher relay would improve matters with the indicators? Or is it a case of them functioning ok after a relatively short distance so not worth worrying about?

A note on the above post - it should have been William Shockley but a typo meant i missed the e out of his name - tried editing it and was presented with "Error 403 - you don't have permission....."

Not to worry, it's early on a monday and the forum is probably struggling to wake up, just like me!

Hi Dave,

The option to switch most power to the lights rather than charging the battery only occurred on a few older bikes, prior to alternators becoming commonplace. On the Bloop it is just a matter of unscrewing the side panel and swapping two bullet connectors - not difficult at all, but I suspect most Bloop owners would have had no idea of that one (the Bloop was sold mostly to a non-biker market, hence the heel-and-toe gear change - no proper biker would change gear with a heel).

The flashers really aren’t a problem. If I started the bike frequently (perhaps weekly) the tiny (about the size of a couple of packets of cigars) 6V battery would stay charged up enough to warm up the bimetallic strip strip straight away. The way it is the engine starts first or second kick on the magneto coil after a month or so standing, then the dynamo takes half a mile or so to top up the battery. I suspect that was the case when it was new, so it’s not worth trying to fix.

Alan

[Laird Scooby]

Originally Posted by Othen

Hi Dave,

The option to switch most power to the lights rather than charging the battery only occurred on a few older bikes, prior to alternators becoming commonplace. On the Bloop it is just a matter of unscrewing the side panel and swapping two bullet connectors - not difficult at all, but I suspect most Bloop owners would have had no idea of that one (the Bloop was sold mostly to a non-biker market, hence the heel-and-toe gear change - no proper biker would change gear with a heel).

The flashers really aren’t a problem. If I started the bike frequently (perhaps weekly) the tiny (about the size of a couple of packets of cigars) 6V battery would stay charged up enough to warm up the bimetallic strip strip straight away. The way it is the engine starts first or second kick on the magneto coil after a month or so standing, then the dynamo takes half a mile or so to top up the battery. I suspect that was the case when it was new, so it’s not worth trying to fix.

Alan

I thought that was how it was done Alan, must be about 40 years since i discovered that so i think i did well to remember it, especially as a non-biker!

You could add a very simple changeover switch for the charging/bright lights and if you used the right bullet connectors, could make it a reversible mod as well. Also if you found the right LED headlamp bulb, you could leave it set at better charging as the lighting circuit wouldn't need as much current but still be considerably brighter than it is now.

https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/col...onversion-5-9v

Current draw on that one is 1.2A, not sure what you have now (45/40W maybe?) but guessing about 7A draw so you'd gain 6A (at a guess) which could be used for charging the battery and brighter lights as well - win-win situation! Entirely reversible too if you ever wanted to show it as it left the factory.

[john.wigley]

The Bloop is positively sophisticated compared to my last two bikes, Alan. Until recently, I ran a brace of Raleigh mopeds, '63 RM4 and a '65 RM6 (the original 'Runabout').

They were innocent of batteries, brake lights and indicators. There were just two coils, LT ignition (there was an external HT coil) and lighting, which powered the 15 W headlamp and 3 W tail lamp (little more than bike lights really).

There was an electric buzzer, which, when sounded, almost completely extinguished the lights should they be switched on. Even switching them on at tick-over, especially with a cold engine, often resulted in a stall. Many riders replaced the ineffectual buzzer with a bulb horn - as a motor vehicle, a horn was a legal requirement; a bicycle bell simply would not do!

These were your true 'ride to work' machines, against which the 'Bloop' was positively luxurious. I, and many others, did ride them to work in all weathers; the machines that I had more recently were strictly 'hobby' machines, ridden purely for pleasure and only when the sun shone.

Regards, John.