C40 Recharge

[Thassos]

Totally agree on the suv and smartphone comments... Hmm and what is going on with the filled in badge area on the front, looks so naff, i guess it doesnt need any airflow thru there,

[Thekilt]

Originally Posted by george57l

And the reason none of the larger SUVs ("estates") are fully electric is simple - weight. The range would be unacceptable. And if it were fully loaded (like a proper estate car might often be) the inadequate normal range of a heavier car would further diminish - very dramatically.

I partially disagree with the above, with the Tesla Model X being the longest range "SUV" and with space with is on par with the XC90, if not bigger. The reason i "Partially" disagree, and also use "SUV" in inverted commas, is that when you look at the model X, its not REALLY an SUV like the rest of them. its almost a people carrier like the Zafira, Galaxy etc.

[bornmiddleaged]

Originally Posted by george57l

Volvo have long since stopped being interested in making any proper estate car. They signalled that with the demise of the V70. Every alleged estate car since has been an SUV with no flat/level load area and a dog-leg tailgate and they have not called them estate cars.

....

Um, what about the V60 and V90 currently on sale? Both estates.

But I do agree that estates are now out of fashion and we seem to be once more aping our American cousins with SUVs taking over.

[george57l]

Originally Posted by Thekilt

I partially disagree with the above, with the Tesla Model X being the longest range "SUV" and with space with is on par with the XC90, if not bigger. The reason i "Partially" disagree, and also use "SUV" in inverted commas, is that when you look at the model X, its not REALLY an SUV like the rest of them. its almost a people carrier like the Zafira, Galaxy etc.

Can you get a couple of washing machines or a wardrobe in a Tesla?

Originally Posted by bornmiddleaged

what about the V60 and V90 currently on sale? Both estates.

No. Both SUVs. In my book a car that has a sloping load area when the rear seats are folded down, i.e. does not have a fully and continuously level load area from behind the front seats to the tailgate, and which has a non-vertical, dog-leg tailgate that does not allow the tailgate to close fully when a large square item like a washing machine is put in the rear-most part of the cargo area does not qualify as a proper estate car.

A V70 qualifies. A V60 and V90 fail both tests.

[Thekilt]

Originally Posted by george57l

Can you get a couple of washing machines or a wardrobe in a Tesla?
.

As long as you go for the 5 or 7 seater option so all seant fold flat, the space is massive. i would say on par with 850/V70, with more head height.

None of the other electric vehicles come close to capacity. Even the Model S being a hatchback has a pretty good boot load space. Plus there is more storage under the floor in the boot, and and the front.

[george57l]

Well that dramatic curve on the rear of the Tesla must be an optical illusion then, 'cos I cannot see how with a driver and three passengers (i.e. rear seats up) you could still get a bulky cubic load like a washing machine under that tailgate.
Maybe I'll go look, once we're allowed out again.

My XC70 is often loaded to the ceiling right up to the tailgate. Can't be done with these dog-leg or curved tailgates.

[jamei305]

Originally Posted by george57l

Can you get a couple of washing machines or a wardrobe in a Tesla?


No. Both SUVs. In my book a car that has a sloping load area when the rear seats are folded down, i.e. does not have a fully and continuously level load area from behind the front seats to the tailgate, and which has a non-vertical, dog-leg tailgate that does not allow the tailgate to close fully when a large square item like a washing machine is put in the rear-most part of the cargo area does not qualify as a proper estate car.

Completely flat rear ends have always been the exception on estate cars rather than the norm. Check out classics of the class such as the 1971 Buick Estate Wagon, the Merc W123 Estate, the Citroen CX Estate, Audi S4 estate etc... none with straight tailgates.

To suggest the V90 and V60 are SUVs is absurd. The V90 has less ground clearance than a Ford Focus and a BMW 3 Series.

[george57l]

Originally Posted by jamei305

To suggest the V90 and V60 are SUVs is absurd. The V90 has less ground clearance than a Ford Focus and a BMW 3 Series.

My bad - I was thinking XC60/90.
But the V90 and V60 aint usable as estates, in my eyes. The rear seats when folded give the load area floor a distinct tilt, they do not fold flat and level unlike every 850/V70 I ever had. The phase 1 V780 even had the squabs fold forward into the foot well specifically so a level load area could be achieved. Volvo simply don't bother or care about that any more.

I'm used to throwing things through the back door of my V70s and XC70 and they stay put, rather than rolling towards the rear down a slope. And I can't load it to the ceiling with a large cubic thing at the rear as could be done with any classic 240/260 estate or 850 or V70/XC70.
I'm just saying Volvo have gone for form over function in recent years, and I wish they had not.

[jamei305]

Originally Posted by george57l

My bad - I was thinking XC60/90.
But the V90 and V60 aint usable as estates, in my eyes. The rear seats when folded give the load area floor a distinct tilt, they do not fold flat and level unlike every 850/V70 I ever had. The phase 1 V780 even had the squabs fold forward into the foot well specifically so a level load area could be achieved. Volvo simply don't bother or care about that any more.

I'm used to throwing things through the back door of my V70s and XC70 and they stay put, rather than rolling towards the rear down a slope. And I can't load it to the ceiling with a large cubic thing at the rear as could be done with any classic 240/260 estate or 850 or V70/XC70.
I'm just saying Volvo have gone for form over function in recent years, and I wish they had not.

It depends whose function you're talking about. I'd suggest the number of estate car owners wishing to cart washing machines and wardrobes around was always small (hence sloping tailgates being the norm) but has decreased markedly with the advent of online delivery, council collection services, availability of van hire etc. This has allowed other considerations to take priority such as aerodynamics, with most new Volvo estate owners more concerned with having SUV-like space for dogs/kids/camping/work but with saloon-like dynamics and handling.

[george57l]

My V70s and XC70 had/have saloon-like dynamics and handling. They both also had/have SUV-like space for dogs/kids/camping/work. If that's what owners want, the V70 form-factor delivers it. Current shapes may be more aerodynamic, but basically I suspect fashion and style take more precedence than utility these days.

Maybe wardrobe and washing machine removal are old hat these days but I merely used them as examples of large cubic things. My regular trips abroad (pre-covid) saw the back loaded with many storage boxes, often right up to the back/top. The whole point of a well-designed estate (like 200s and 850/V70s) was capability and capacity. Those have been compromised in latest designs. You may think the compromise trivial or irrelevant - I do not.

I'm not going to continue this any more - you can try as much as you like but you will not persuade me that today's Volvo estates are fit for my purposes. There was no need to move away from the V70 form factor and when they did, they didn't bother to think what they were taking away. The level load area being one of the critical deal-breakers for me.

You clearly don't have the same requirements or concerns. That's fine.

Bye-bye.