D5 (2005 on) Engine Oil

[younger06]

Sorry for dragging this thread up again but I am very close to my oil change. I am fairly sure that my 2009 D5 (185) engine has a DPF and 0W/30 oil is way too expensive in Ireland. The temp is never going to go below -10C, so what 5W/30 or 5W/40 oil would you guys recommend ???

[GrahamBrown1]

as long as its A5 B5 spec it should be ok buy the best oil you can sensibly afford

[S60D5-185]

Originally Posted by younger06

Sorry for dragging this thread up again but I am very close to my oil change. I am fairly sure that my 2009 D5 (185) engine has a DPF and 0W/30 oil is way too expensive in Ireland. The temp is never going to go below -10C, so what 5W/30 or 5W/40 oil would you guys recommend ???

I have used 5w Mobil 1 ESP FORMULA over the last 50k in my D5 185 and have had no issues whatsover particularly with the DPF.

[Darlo 1]

Originally Posted by younger06

Now I'm very confused!!

Well you did ask!

[Clan]

Originally Posted by younger06

Is it necessary to use 0W-30 oil ??

The list of recommended oils in the owners manual looks like 5W-30 might be ok for the UK/IRL climate as long as it meets A5/B5 specification, any thoughts would be much appreciated.

yes it is , thats what volvo have decided after extensive testing on the road and dynamometer in conjunction with castrol . we are not qualified to choose anything else ... 0w/30 A5/B5 .. it results in less friction too and therefore a little help with fuel consumption .

"The correct viscosity coupled with the ACEA rating must always be used
in all engines fitted to the Volvo Car range. (For example, an engine requiring only a 0W-30 ACEA A5/B5
lubricant should not be filled with a 0W-40 ACEA A5/B5 lubricant.)"

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by Clan

yes it is , thats what volvo have decided after extensive testing on the road and dynamometer in conjunction with castrol . we are not qualified to choose anything else ... 0w/30 A5/B5 .. it results in less friction too and therefore a little help with fuel consumption .

"The correct viscosity coupled with the ACEA rating must always be used
in all engines fitted to the Volvo Car range. (For example, an engine requiring only a 0W-30 ACEA A5/B5
lubricant should not be filled with a 0W-40 ACEA A5/B5 lubricant.)"

That's correct when a Volvo is under a new car warranty, using the wrong oil could result in potential warranty claim issues if the engine failed.
Once the warranty expires, stick to the recommended Acea ratings which vary with the exact engine type and I NEVER USE NON MAJOR BRAND OIL COMPANY PRODUCTS, it's just too risky in both actual contents and quality control terms.
In very general terms new Volvo engines should use a full synthetic 0/30 and older ones a full synthetic 0/40. If you have even the slightest suspition that your car is subject to extreme conditions (Mostly too many short trips, lots of time in traffic, serious heavy towing or off road use) cut the oil change interval in half. The oil filter can be used until the max change interval unless the engine is being cleaned of sludge or is in bad condition. There is nothing wrong with changing the oil twice for every filter change IF you use a real Volvo oil filter, BUT do not try and drain it.

Never use a C3 or 2 cat oil in a diesel that does not have a DPF fitted, as even Edge Turbo 5/40 is nasty stuff due to lack of Zinc based additives.

Castrol supply Volvo dealers with good oil, BUT it was not designed for the actual engine except in the case of the newer 2.0 Ford blocks, so any major brand full synthetic 0w30 or 40 (If listed) will do a good job, BUT the viscosity of Castrol Edge 0/30 is almost into the 40 range, so if you want to use an 0/30 and think Mobil, Shell or Liqui Moly make better or cheaper oils, make sure the listed kinematic cSt (centi strokes) figure at 100c is NOT BELOW that of Edge, as it's right near the top of the SAE 30 range. In most cases like M1 0/40 that means moving up to an 0/40.

Once the engine ages and the oil consumption starts to creep up, move up to an 0 or 5/40 full synthetic in summer in particular, as it reduces oil consumption and is better for worn bearings. If you don't intend cold starting below minus 25c, a 5/30 or 40 is perfectly OK (In technical terms you should not cold start a diesel less than 10c above the pour point). For a full German standard group 4 synthetic, that lower limit is 35c for a 5/40. It's also lower for Shell Ultra as it has a Gas To Liquid (GTL) base stock and the pour point of that 5/40 is minus 45c (Castrol Edge 0/40 is minus 46c).

Another final word, USE THE OIL FINDER GUIDES (Ultra is not listed by Shell yet, as they don't make a profit from selling it in my opinion) and pick the best oil listed. If for some reason you are given a cheap drum of non major brand oil, either get it tested or boost the additives up with a can of MoS2 or Ceratec, then change it at 5K miles max. Cheap oils don't last long and are a classic case of you get what you pay for.

If you find an oily bargain, make sure it's not from a company in direct breach of Acea regs (8 different oil mixers are under investigation in the UK at present):
http://www.ukla-vls.org.uk/case-outcomes/
Then check to see if it was approved for use by VW, as they test nearly every oil for sale, there are several different VW lists to check for company names, but those lists can be found here:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3005/V170801.pdf
VW are not fussy in engine oil terms, so if you can't find a cheap oil listed by them, I would never even think of using it.

The difference in fuel consumption terms between an 0w30 and an 0w40 is around 2%, BUT it depends how much Moly is included in the oils own additive pack. In the case of major brand full synthetics the difference is too low to detect, BUT is more significant in winter, IF you use a 10 or even a 15/40, as the engine will take slightly longer to warm up or even be pushing the pour point limits if very cold. The oil pressure relief valve then opens for longer and that's not too good for engine wear either.

[Darlo 1]

Originally Posted by skyship007

That's correct when a Volvo is under a new car warranty, using the wrong oil could result in potential warranty claim issues if the engine failed.
Once the warranty expires, stick to the recommended Acea ratings which vary with the exact engine type and I NEVER USE NON MAJOR BRAND OIL COMPANY PRODUCTS, it's just too risky in both actual contents and quality control terms.
In very general terms new Volvo engines should use a full synthetic 0/30 and older ones a full synthetic 0/40. If you have even the slightest suspition that your car is subject to extreme conditions (Mostly too many short trips, lots of time in traffic, serious heavy towing or off road use) cut the oil change interval in half. The oil filter can be used until the max change interval unless the engine is being cleaned of sludge or is in bad condition. There is nothing wrong with changing the oil twice for every filter change IF you use a real Volvo oil filter, BUT do not try and drain it.

Never use a C3 or 2 cat oil in a diesel that does not have a DPF fitted, as even Edge Turbo 5/40 is nasty stuff due to lack of Zinc based additives.

Castrol supply Volvo dealers with good oil, BUT it was not designed for the actual engine except in the case of the newer 2.0 Ford blocks, so any major brand full synthetic 0w30 or 40 (If listed) will do a good job, BUT the viscosity of Castrol Edge 0/30 is almost into the 40 range, so if you want to use an 0/30 and think Mobil, Shell or Liqui Moly make better or cheaper oils, make sure the listed kinematic cSt (centi strokes) figure at 100c is NOT BELOW that of Edge, as it's right near the top of the SAE 30 range. In most cases like M1 0/40 that means moving up to an 0/40.

Once the engine ages and the oil consumption starts to creep up, move up to an 0 or 5/40 full synthetic in summer in particular, as it reduces oil consumption and is better for worn bearings. If you don't intend cold starting below minus 25c, a 5/30 or 40 is perfectly OK (In technical terms you should not cold start a diesel less than 10c above the pour point). For a full German standard group 4 synthetic, that lower limit is 35c for a 5/40. It's also lower for Shell Ultra as it has a Gas To Liquid (GTL) base stock and the pour point of that 5/40 is minus 45c (Castrol Edge 0/40 is minus 46c).

Another final word, USE THE OIL FINDER GUIDES (Ultra is not listed by Shell yet, as they don't make a profit from selling it in my opinion) and pick the best oil listed. If for some reason you are given a cheap drum of non major brand oil, either get it tested or boost the additives up with a can of MoS2 or Ceratec, then change it at 5K miles max. Cheap oils don't last long and are a classic case of you get what you pay for.

If you find an oily bargain, make sure it's not from a company in direct breach of Acea regs (8 different oil mixers are under investigation in the UK at present):
http://www.ukla-vls.org.uk/case-outcomes/
Then check to see if it was approved for use by VW, as they test nearly every oil for sale, there are several different VW lists to check for company names, but those lists can be found here:
http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/3005/V170801.pdf
VW are not fussy in engine oil terms, so if you can't find a cheap oil listed by them, I would never even think of using it.

The difference in fuel consumption terms between an 0w30 and an 0w40 is around 2%, BUT it depends how much Moly is included in the oils own additive pack. In the case of major brand full synthetics the difference is too low to detect, BUT is more significant in winter, IF you use a 10 or even a 15/40, as the engine will take slightly longer to warm up or even be pushing the pour point limits if very cold. The oil pressure relief valve then opens for longer and that's not too good for engine wear either.

Bet your heads really spinning now!!!!

[jp11]

Originally Posted by Clan

yes it is , thats what volvo have decided after extensive testing on the road and dynamometer in conjunction with castrol . we are not qualified to choose anything else ... 0w/30 A5/B5 .. it results in less friction too and therefore a little help with fuel consumption .

"The correct viscosity coupled with the ACEA rating must always be used
in all engines fitted to the Volvo Car range. (For example, an engine requiring only a 0W-30 ACEA A5/B5
lubricant should not be filled with a 0W-40 ACEA A5/B5 lubricant.)"

Guys, you can pontificate all you like about oil preferences (and that's what they are - preferences), the use of additives like Moly, etc. But if you value you engine, and rely on it as I do for my 600 miles a week commute, then do as Clan says and use the recommended A5/B5 0w30. I don't think it matters too much about brands, as long as they're reputable. Yes it's expensive, but if you only have to do it every 18k it's not such a big deal (even though I do mine at 10k). I've done 150,000 miles with D5 engines (both Euro 3 and 4) always with 0w30 A5/B5 and all of them sounded great. A friend now owns one of them with 200,000 on it right now, and he also does 600 high-speed miles a week with it.

[younger06]

Originally Posted by jp11

Guys, you can pontificate all you like about oil preferences (and that's what they are - preferences), the use of additives like Moly, etc. But if you value you engine, and rely on it as I do for my 600 miles a week commute, then do as Clan says and use the recommended A5/B5 0w30. I don't think it matters too much about brands, as long as they're reputable. Yes it's expensive, but if you only have to do it every 18k it's not such a big deal (even though I do mine at 10k). I've done 150,000 miles with D5 engines (both Euro 3 and 4) always with 0w30 A5/B5 and all of them sounded great. A friend now owns one of them with 200,000 on it right now, and he also does 600 high-speed miles a week with it.

I do approx. 2500kms a week!!!!

Just trying to trim the running costs. The "recommended oil chart" in the manual, would lead you to believe that for our (Ireland/UK) climate, 5W/30 A5 B5 is suitable for the D5. I put 645,000kms in 8 years on my Skoda Octavia and I knew I was fine once I got VW505.01 rated oil.
I appreciate all the help guys but some of it is way,way over my head. I suppose I am just waiting for someone to tell me what I want to hear!!

[skyship007]

Originally Posted by younger06

I do approx. 2500kms a week!!!!

Just trying to trim the running costs. The "recommended oil chart" in the manual, would lead you to believe that for our (Ireland/UK) climate, 5W/30 A5 B5 is suitable for the D5. I put 645,000kms in 8 years on my Skoda Octavia and I knew I was fine once I got VW505.01 rated oil.
I appreciate all the help guys but some of it is way,way over my head. I suppose I am just waiting for someone to tell me what I want to hear!!

If you have an older diesel, just add 10 after the W(Or /) as follows:
0 or 5/30 plus 10 equals 0 or 5/40 (I taught Maths many years ago?).

Check the handbook limits in summer, as some older Volvo diesels like the V40 1.9D must not use an x/30 above 30C.
If you use a winter oil, then make sure it is Castrol Edge 0/30, NOT Magnetec 5/30 or some dinosaur based oil. If you want to use another major brand oil, use that companies engine oil guide and it will often list an 0/40 if they don't make an 0/30 that is at the top of the viscosity range for a 30 grade.

Don't put A5/B5 oil in an engine listed for A3/B4, as it is nearly as bad as some C2 and 3 cats. Castrol and Mobil say it's not, but they are trying to fill the, "One size fits all", commercial market so that Iffy lubes only need stock one type of oil. If you don't have a DPF then B4 only is another option. Acea limits:
https://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAd...A-A5B5-10.html

Note: This Acea cat is mostly used for fried dinosaur oils (5/30 HC synthetics) and the following web site warning from that link:
The low HTHS (≤3.5cP) required by ACEA A5/B5 limits the number of additional performance claims that can be coupled with ACEA A5/B5.
Cheap junk oil in comparison with a German Synthoil (Or Shell Ultra) Acea A3/B4, although a can of Ceratec will improve the oil analysis results AND reduce the rattle, so the Germans do use it.

Engine wear relates more to the number of stop starts and total time at idle than distance, although age is also involved. A modern oil condition monitor in a diesel might say change oil every 50K miles if you do long trips, or every 5K miles if you do a lot of stop starts. If you are below the lower limit it will just go to zero after 2 years and trigger the service due light.

Viscosity matters and it is interesting to note that GM have now reduced the oil change interval of many petrol engines using their 5/30 engine oils and Ford have also cut some oil change intervals because of using 0/20 engine oil in non hybrid engines. Those changes were caused by actual block failures in warranty because their approved oils list is not a good one, partly because some are just too thin when hot and others do not contain enough anti wear or detergent additives.

Off topic a bit:
I was just looking at BITOG forum and reading this post from an engine oil designer:
Much research on these new liquids shows promise as a replacement for ZDDP and other organo-metallic compounds.

Any time you reduce the organo-metallic content of an engine lubricant, you reduce metallic ash deposits on valves and other components.
This new compound is an oil-miscible trihexyltetra-ecylphosphonium bis(2-ethylhexyl)phosphate.
In Ring-on-Liner tests in a base oil with the same concentration as ZDDP, this liquid showed a maximum COF of 0.075 whereas the ZDDP mixture showed a COF of 0.215, a huge reduction in COF.
This liquid showed a 50% reduction in wear when tested against the ZDDP mixture at 100C.
This liquid was stable up to about 300C.

In other words that means the oil companies have still not found an alternative to Zinc based additives that works!
Any liquid that burns off at 300c is not going to work on the compression ring too well and the 50% reduction is about what a bottle of Ceratec does, so this new complex chemical is stiil way behind the German chemists, as they are working on a new version of their best oil additive at present.