BKV - 'Modified Class' Judging

[Pedro Fandango]

Originally Posted by Chesh740R

I certainly did not realise the amount of time and effort Pedro has put into his car with the impressive mod list that he's produced. That would certainly give him a lot of marks in my book.

thank you, this is my point exactly, without knowing exactly what has been done & talking to the owner i don't think anyone can come to a conclusive judgement

But then again, i could quite easily give a person lots of marks for keeping it clean simple and subtle, with just perhaps a few mods that then make a tasty looking car.

What we need to assertain then is some caterogries to break it down so that they can be scored.

Or quite simply you could give mark each car a score of 20.

So basically each entrant gets a sheet where they right down each Reg Number of the cars entered, walk round it read its mod sheet and come to there own conclusion with it and score it on how much they like. Of course they can't judge there own cars.

Each person does this, the sheets are deposited in a box and then the marks counted, the highest number is of course the winner and the peoples choice.

this is why the voting should be done by all the other entrants in the class, there are so many different ways to modify a car that it all comes down to personal taste & a winner can not be worked out by using a score sheet. Is it possible to say a de-handle/smoothed car gets more/less point than one with a one-off wide arch kit?

[Pedro Fandango]

Originally Posted by IC

Surely owners should be praised for the work that they have done themselves? If there are two highly modified cars, one where the owners has been working for months coming up with ideas and building the engine etc themselves and another car where the car has been highly modified by a garage and the owner has had no part in the hard work they should be judged in a different class. If there was a class for the best modified car which has been worked on by the owner as a project it would be a very worthwhile competition - the owner could keep a dossier of all the work that has been done as well as notes on the car's development. People should be praised for the hard work that they have done as well as the techniques that they have used to address issues that they have met whilst working on the car as well as the innovative ideas that they have had! Please excuse me if I have discussed anything that anybody has already mentioned!

i do agree that praise should be given to anyone who does experiment with ideas & vary from the norm, but don't believe that because a garage has done the work should carry as much ground as to be placed into a different class. I for example in the past have stripped a car back to a bare shell & modified every part as it was put back on, however i haven't done anywhere near the same on BT & i've got many specialist involved because i wanted it done to a high standard & i lack the knowledge/expertise to do that on a more modern, complex & more valuable car. If i was to go out & buy a car already complete & modified car does that make the car in question any less impressive?

[IC]

Originally Posted by Pedro Fandango

i do agree that praise should be given to anyone who does experiment with ideas & vary from the norm, but don't believe that because a garage has done the work should carry as much ground as to be placed into a different class. I for example in the past have stripped a car back to a bare shell & modified every part as it was put back on, however i haven't done anywhere near the same on BT & i've got many specialist involved because i wanted it done to a high standard & i lack the knowledge/expertise to do that on a more modern, complex & more valuable car. If i was to go out & buy a car already complete & modified car does that make the car in question any less impressive?

Hi Duane, "if i was to go out & buy a car already complete & modified car does that make the car in question any less impressive?" In the BKV the emphasis is on the work that people do to present their car, at the moment it's their presentation of the car that's important (I know that the way that things are judged is being looked at, this is a very good thing as we do need to look at what people want!). If someone was to give their car to somebody else to prepare it and then present it they wouldn't be doing anything wrong, however they wouldn't be competing within the spirit of the competion. It could be said that winning a modified section prize based on what an individual has done to the car has its merits because he/she is being rewarded for the effort and time that they have spent on the car as an enthusiast. Awarding a prize to someone who has a car that has been modified by someone else recognise the fact that the car is highly modified, however the owner is not being awarded a prize for effort and hard work, just the fact that he/she owns a car that is highly modified. We all have admiration for a car that has been well modified and just because the car has been professionaly modified doesn't make it any less impressive, however we would not be recognising the effort that someone has put into a car. What do we recognise, peoples' hard work innovation, commitment and effort or just the car on the merits of its modifications - people or cars or both?

[MissDMeanor]

Originally Posted by IC

Surely owners should be praised for the work that they have done themselves? If there are two highly modified cars, one where the owners has been working for months coming up with ideas and building the engine etc themselves and another car where the car has been highly modified by a garage and the owner has had no part in the hard work they should be judged in a different class. If there was a class for the best modified car which has been worked on by the owner as a project it would be a very worthwhile competition - the owner could keep a dossier of all the work that has been done as well as notes on the car's development. People should be praised for the hard work that they have done as well as the techniques that they have used to address issues that they have met whilst working on the car as well as the innovative ideas that they have had! Please excuse me if I have discussed anything that anybody has already mentioned!

Right, so if you were not judging next year and entered your race S70 into the Most/Best Modded it would not be entered with the others, score any points, interest or respect because you bought the car modified?

Surely having different classes of Best Modded creates more complexity and would require yet another award? This seems very unneccessary to me and do we really have enough cars to start splitting into seperate groups?

What is wrong with every person voting for their favourite modded car which would emcompass all these points and leave the final vote to the discretion of the voter.

For instance, Mouthy is heavily modified - S W Autos carried out all works Does this therefore mean she should be dismissed, ignored or ridiculed?

Personally, I would vote for a car which has had the works carried out by the owner and interested in listening (or reading) the story of the blood, sweat and tears shed in order to get the car to its present condition.

[IC]

Originally Posted by MissDMeanor

Right, so if you were not judging next year and entered your race S70 into the Most/Best Modded it would not be entered with the others, score any points, interest or respect because you bought the car modified?

Surely having different classes of Best Modded creates more complexity and would require yet another award? This seems very unneccessary to me and do we really have enough cars to start splitting into seperate groups?

What is wrong with every person voting for their favourite modded car which would emcompass all these points and leave the final vote to the discretion of the voter.

For instance, Mouthy is heavily modified - S W Autos carried out all works Does this therefore mean she should be dismissed, ignored or ridiculed?

Personally, I would vote for a car which has had the works carried out by the owner and interested in listening (or reading) the story of the blood, sweat and tears shed in order to get the car to its present condition.

Ju, it's just a question of recognising and rewarding somebody's efforts and skills or recognising the merits of a modified car in abstract (there's nothing wrong with either!).

[MissDMeanor]

Originally Posted by IC

Hi Duane, "if i was to go out & buy a car already complete & modified car does that make the car in question any less impressive?" In the BKV the emphasis is on the work that people do to present their car, at the moment it's their presentation of the car that's important (I know that the way that things are judged is being looked at, this is a very good thing as we do need to look at what people want!). If someone was to give their car to somebody else to prepare it and then present it they wouldn't be doing anything wrong, however they wouldn't be competing within the spirit of the competion. It could be said that winning a modified section prize based on what an individual has done to the car has its merits because he/she is being rewarded for the effort and time that they have spent on the car as an enthusiast. Awarding a prize to someone who has a car that has been modified by someone else recognise the fact that the car is highly modified, however the owner is not being awarded a prize for effort and hard work, just the fact that he/she owns a car that is highly modified. We all have admiration for a car that has been well modified and just because the car has been professionaly modified doesn't make it any less impressive, however we would not be recognising the effort that someone has put into a car. What do we recognise, peoples' hard work innovation commitment and effort or just the car on the merits of its modifications - people or cars or both?

But this award wouldn't be a 'traditional' BKV award as it doesn't emphasis what the BKV is all about. It would be rewarding uniqueness, difference, originality (of modifications) and what work has been involved.

This has nothing to do with preparation or presentation.

So were I to buy that gorgeous black Amazon I would be not be eligible for the Most Modified class because I bought the car already modified to a high standard?

A change of owner or modifications carried out professionally should not in any way detract from the overall uniqueness of the car.

[IC]

Originally Posted by MissDMeanor

But this award wouldn't be a 'traditional' BKV award as it doesn't emphasis what the BKV is all about. It would be rewarding uniqueness, difference, originality (of modifications) and what work has been involved.

This has nothing to do with preparation or presentation.

So were I to buy that gorgeous black Amazon I would be not be eligible for the Most Modified class because I bought the car already modified to a high standard?

A change of owner or modifications carried out professionally should not in any way detract from the overall uniqueness of the car.

Ju, tradition has its own merits, however there's nothing wrong with change to reflect what people want by making some changes in the way that the classes are judged if that's what people would like! It would award the effort that people have made. One prize could be for an individual that has made a lot of effort to modify his/her car, the other prize could be for the best modified car. There could also be an overall champion modified car prize!

[TheJoyOfSix]

So,
Best Modified Car.
Best Modified Car due to owners mods.
Best Modified Car due to garage mods.
Best Modified car due to previous owners mods.
Most Concourse Modded Car.

This could get ridiculous..........!


There's already an idea for a 'People's Car' vote whereby all entrants of all categories vote for their own overall favourite car. If this idea is adopted then I feel there's no need for a seperate vote amongst the Non Standard section.

Ideally we should have some impartial judges (ie P1800 or S80 owners) who have no pre-judged ideas about what constitutes a good 'Modded' car. They are then given a sheet with various criteria with which to judge the cars. Criterea such as Innovation, Presentation, Resultant Gain, Overall Effect etc. That way a XC90 with a 'Blingin' bodykit, 20" Chrome Rimz, Pumpin sound system and black windows stands as much chance of winning as a replica 850 Touring Car or a P1800 with a B5254.

It's ideas for the criterea and how to mark them that is going to be the hard thing to decide.

[IC]

It's ideas for the criterea and how to mark them that is going to be the hard thing to decide.[/quote]

Rupert, that will be the hard thing to decide. Maybe if members voted for what they felt was appropriate from a list that could be agreed on and that was given to Chris Wickers to present to the board.

[MissDMeanor]

Originally Posted by IC

Ju, tradition has its own merits, however there's nothing wrong with change to reflect what people want by making some changes in the way that the classes are judged if that's what people would like! It would award the effort that people have made. One prize could be for an individual that has made a lot of effort to modify his/her car, the other prize could be for the best modified car. There could also be an overall champion modified car prize!

We're not asking for anything to be changed at all.

The Best Modded would be an introduction of a new award.

You seem to be suggesting that the modified section now would have 4 awards.

Best Kept Modified
Best Modified - works carried out by owner only
Best Modified - works not carried out by owner; or professionally commissioned
Best Overall Modified.

We were not a small section but I really don't think we number enough to warrant 4 seperate awards with the complexities you are suggesting.

I think it would be unrealistic and just not feasible.