JJs Project Thread - 240 GL Estate

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Problemchild1976

Hey all - sorry didn’t get any notifications for this chat

Defo not defensive - was just pointing out some bits.

Swapped the 40mm drop springs for the 15mm ones and now I’m much happier with the look



Been for a drive round the block and the drivers side rear wheel rubs (obvs - it’s like 12mm off the arch)

The main reason for it only rubbing on the drivers side is I’ve not set up the adjustable panhard to bring the rear end back in line - to be done over the weekend

Ive chatted to a few people who run these wheels and have the car lowered and know it all works

So I’ll swap the tyres and sell the ones on there now and go for the recommended. Stretch is fun - my smart BRABUS has some quite drastic stretch...

But I think 215 35 is what most run which obviously changes things a bit

Then if I need to I will trim the arch a bit

Can’t roll the arches because they are double skinned and spot welded

JJ

Well, that is much more promising news.

When you say you have swapped to 15mm springs does that mean 15mm lowering items? Were they in the motor car when you bought it? I ask because (if you don't mind me saying so) the motor car still looks a bit low at the rear. IMHO (and I know, that isn't important) it would do the motor car no harm to raise the back by at least another inch.

I don't know anything about adjustable Panhard rods, although it is obvious what they do. If you measure how far the OSR tyre sticks out and how far is the overhang on the NSR side that will give you your leeway. It sounds like the gap would have to be huge on the NSR to have enough spare room to move the OSR sufficiently, but you will be able to work that out much better from where you are standing :-).

It is really sensible to have spoken to other people about this conversion, well done. I only know what I've read (mostly American stories on Turbobricks); many owners seem to report rubbing problems with wide 18" wheels (not the same as your wheels though), although often at the front, where the solution is to restrict the steering with some blocks. This seems a pity to restrict the turning circle of a 240 as that is one of its strong suits, but may be a necessary price for the look. Americans resort to flaring the wheel arches at the drop of a hat to solve rubbing problems. It doesn't look like it would be all that difficult, but it would be more difficult to find a body shop with the experience to do it here in the UK. I'm not sure what you mean by trimming the arch a bit though JJ, IMHO if any metal needs removing then it needs to be done properly and some sort of flare added to replace what comes off.

I think you have come to the right conclusion about the tyres, this is going to be a close run thing and 205 is the widest tread that might fit. You already know my feeling on stretching tyres, but I'm much more conservative than are you JJ. Unfortunately 205/35 isn't such a common size, so what is available is a tad more expensive. At the cheaper end of the market a set might be had for £400 (fitted), which isn't so much in the context of the whole project.

This has suddenly gone from a 'tidying up an old motor car' project to one breaking new ground (for our very conservative 200 series forum) with lots of interesting technical and aesthetic challenges. We are enjoying reading about your progress JJ - keep sending the words and pictures.

:-)

Alan

PS. These are the 7.5x17 wheels I bought for GAM (my 1963 Amazon):



... I'm pretty sure they would have fitted with some 205 section tyres but I knew they were wrong (much too ZZ Top) straight away, and that view was corroborated by the voice of the body of the kirk in the 120 section of this excellent forum. I was happy to put my hand up and admit I'd made a mistake instantly; no harm was done as I'd bought them very cheaply and sold them on at a profit the next week :-).

[Problemchild1976]

40mm was part of a set bought from dai at classic swede

15mm (yes still a drop of 15mm over the original) came from him too and I’ll sell the 40mm ones

The rear arch level is lower on the rear than the front so they always look like this. When it was really low, that’s when the body was straight and level.

Re panhard - he’s exactly that. Measure and put a few turns on the bar to bring it in line.

JJ

[360beast]

Originally Posted by Othen

Well, that is much more promising news.

When you say you have swapped to 15mm springs does that mean 15mm lowering items? Were they in the motor car when you bought it? I ask because (if you don't mind me saying so) the motor car still looks a bit low at the rear. IMHO (and I know, that isn't important) it would do the motor car no harm to raise the back by at least another inch.

I don't know anything about adjustable Panhard rods, although it is obvious what they do. If you measure how far the OSR tyre sticks out and how far is the overhang on the NSR side that will give you your leeway. It sounds like the gap would have to be huge on the NSR to have enough spare room to move the OSR sufficiently, but you will be able to work that out much better from where you are standing :-).

It is really sensible to have spoken to other people about this conversion, well done. I only know what I've read (mostly American stories on Turbobricks); many owners seem to report rubbing problems with wide 18" wheels (not the same as your wheels though), although often at the front, where the solution is to restrict the steering with some blocks. This seems a pity to restrict the turning circle of a 240 as that is one of its strong suits, but may be a necessary price for the look. Americans resort to flaring the wheel arches at the drop of a hat to solve rubbing problems. It doesn't look like it would be all that difficult, but it would be more difficult to find a body shop with the experience to do it here in the UK. I'm not sure what you mean by trimming the arch a bit though JJ, IMHO if any metal needs removing then it needs to be done properly and some sort of flare added to replace what comes off.

I think you have come to the right conclusion about the tyres, this is going to be a close run thing and 205 is the widest tread that might fit. You already know my feeling on stretching tyres, but I'm much more conservative than are you JJ. Unfortunately 205/35 isn't such a common size, so what is available is a tad more expensive. At the cheaper end of the market a set might be had for £400 (fitted), which isn't so much in the context of the whole project.

This has suddenly gone from a 'tidying up an old motor car' project to one breaking new ground (for our very conservative 200 series forum) with lots of interesting technical and aesthetic challenges. We are enjoying reading about your progress JJ - keep sending the words and pictures.

:-)

Alan

PS. These are the 7.5x17 wheels I bought for GAM (my 1963 Amazon):



... I'm pretty sure they would have fitted with some 205 section tyres but I knew they were wrong (much too ZZ Top) straight away, and that view was corroborated by the voice of the body of the kirk in the 120 section of this excellent forum. I was happy to put my hand up and admit I'd made a mistake instantly; no harm was done as I'd bought them very cheaply and sold them on at a profit the next week :-).

Good god Alan! What were you thinking with those wheels? Haha, glad you came to your senses.

[Othen]

Originally Posted by 360beast

Good god Alan! What were you thinking with those wheels? Haha, glad you came to your senses.

You are absolutely right Luke - the temptation of eBay I think. They were really cheap and not far away, so I bought them on a bit of a whim. I knew as soon as I tried them they were a mistake, and quickly took the advice of Dave, John, Mitch and others... to put them straight back onto eBay. I lost nothing except some swallowed pride in making a mistake (and made £50 on the deal).

We all make mistakes Luke :-)

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Problemchild1976

40mm was part of a set bought from dai at classic swede

15mm (yes still a drop of 15mm over the original) came from him too and I’ll sell the 40mm ones

The rear arch level is lower on the rear than the front so they always look like this. When it was really low, that’s when the body was straight and level.

Re panhard - he’s exactly that. Measure and put a few turns on the bar to bring it in line.

JJ

Ah, I see. Do you not have the standard length springs to try? I think this is going to be a very close run thing and that 15mm might make all the difference.

It would be interesting to see how much distance there is between the wheel arch and the tyre both on the NSR and OSR, and whether the Panhard rod allows sufficient adjustment to bring both wheels within the arches. Just judging by the numbers I doubt that will be possible with the 225 width tyres - but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. The inner wheel arch tapers in quite quickly at the rear, so you will need more than just a little clearance allow for suspension movement.

Good fortune :-)

[Problemchild1976]

Originally Posted by Othen

Ah, I see. Do you not have the standard length springs to try? I think this is going to be a very close run thing and that 15mm might make all the difference.

It would be interesting to see how much distance there is between the wheel arch and the tyre both on the NSR and OSR, and whether the Panhard rod allows sufficient adjustment to bring both wheels within the arches. Just judging by the numbers I doubt that will be possible with the 225 width tyres - but I'd be delighted to be proven wrong. The inner wheel arch tapers in quite quickly at the rear, so you will need more than just a little clearance allow for suspension movement.

Good fortune :-)

Yeah so I’ve got 215/35 on the way

And an angle grinder haha

Cleaned and polished today



JJ

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Problemchild1976

Yeah so I’ve got 215/35 on the way

And an angle grinder haha

Cleaned and polished today



JJ

Hi JJ,

Did you take that photo of the NSR after you had adjusted the Parhard rod? I ask because it looks like you may just have enough clearance on that side now - but do you still have an issue with the OSR?

I'm guessing you are still not happy with the clearance and so have ordered narrower tyres, but you went for 215/35 section rather than 205/35 that the Swedish vendor of Ocean wheels fits. 215mm size will only save 5mm each side of the tyre, which might be lost in manufacturing tolerances. Would it not be safer to order 205/35R18 tyres to give yourself a little more leeway?

I'm guessing you are joking about the angle grinder :-)

IMHO the alloy wheels look much smarter that banded steel wheels would have. They would have cost just as much by the time you had them fabricated and decorated.

The motor car looks very smart indeed now, you have done a lot of good work - are you happy with the way it has come out? Once you have this little clearance issue sorted out will that be the end of the project (for the time being at least)?

:-)

PS. I'm wondering whether your reasoning is that 215 is (give or take) 8.5", and the rim is that wide so there isn't any point going any narrower to gain clearance? 205 with is only 8" (about), which might lead to the rims being exposed and very easily damaged. I'm guessing you have been out with the Vernier gauge to check and concluded that 5mm each side will be just enough. Good fortune!

[Problemchild1976]

205/35 is an almost impossible tyre to get hold of

The guy I know who has his lowered is running 215/35 on ocean mk18s

I will trim the rust arches if I need an extra 5mm

And no, not adjusted the panhard yet so the wherlmthis side will come out a bit - but this side doesn’t rub

JJ

[Othen]

Originally Posted by Problemchild1976

205/35 is an almost impossible tyre to get hold of

The guy I know who has his lowered is running 215/35 on ocean mk18s

I will trim the rust arches if I need an extra 5mm

And no, not adjusted the panhard yet so the wherlmthis side will come out a bit - but this side doesn’t rub

JJ

Nankang and Toyo both make a 205/35R18, but I think that is about it. I'm not sure the 205 section tyre would really help with a clearance problem anyway as it is even narrower than the rims. I think stretched tyres like that are okay for show cars that travel on a trailer, but couldn't really be used on the road (well, they could, but the rims would need to be replaced every few thousand miles). In practice the 215/35R18 will be no wider (than the rim) and so might work.

Have you measured the clearance on the NSR and the overhang on the OSR to see if centering with the Panhard rod will work with the additional 10mm clearance the new tyres will give you? If it was really tight I suppose you could trim 5mm off the double thickness seam where the wheel arch turns in before you got to the spot welds. I'd be a bit uncomfortable with that little clearance myself (but it is your motor car of course).

Back to honing cylinder bores -what a crappy job :-)

[Problemchild1976]

Originally Posted by Othen

Nankang and Toyo both make a 205/35R18, but I think that is about it. I'm not sure the 205 section tyre would really help with a clearance problem anyway as it is even narrower than the rims. I think stretched tyres like that are okay for show cars that travel on a trailer, but couldn't really be used on the road (well, they could, but the rims would need to be replaced every few thousand miles). In practice the 215/35R18 will be no wider (than the rim) and so might work.

Have you measured the clearance on the NSR and the overhang on the OSR to see if centering with the Panhard rod will work with the additional 10mm clearance the new tyres will give you? If it was really tight I suppose you could trim 5mm off the double thickness seam where the wheel arch turns in before you got to the spot welds. I'd be a bit uncomfortable with that little clearance myself (but it is your motor car of course).

Back to honing cylinder bores -what a crappy job :-)

Haha - see to me, trimming off 5mm of the arch is way simpler and less risky than engine bores

Stretch gets a bad wrap

My smart ForFour tyres have big stretch with tyres that need to be put on the rim with the air canister to almost explode them on



Rims are fine

JJ