Volvo XC90 T8 complete engine failure

[XC90Mk1]

Originally Posted by Dohnut

Your pragmatic approach is to be applauded.

All things being relevant £9.3k for a new T8 engine (presumably fitted) seems good value.

I thought that too. In fact, I find it difficult to believe a new engine can be fitted at Volvo for anything like that. Does that figure include a goodwill gesture?

[XC90Mk1]

Originally Posted by Philip Fisher

I was absolutely convinced that was what I was going to do and dump it with WBAC in a running condition. But WBAC offered me 16k and I reckon maybe 23k as a private sale. There is basically nothing on Autotrader below 26k when I last looked, so think 23k as private sale for the car when completely sorted is not unrealistic.

I would be uncomfortable selling as a private sale with any of the options other than the new engine. Also if I spent 7k on a secondhand head and it packed up 1 week later before I got it moved on then I would have no comeback, be 7k down and back to square one.

And as someone else said there is nothing for sale at the moment. Even if I ordered the Polestar tomorrow it would be October before I get it.....

With a new engine, if anything goes wrong Volvo will replace it. With a new head they may claim that it is part of the old engine parts failed…

It’s unfortunate but I totally agree with what you are doing

[Backinavolvo]

Agreed..

New engine for sure. The rest of the car is still good I assume, and even if your car was a1 (with a good engine), adding £10k to it on a trade in won't get much.. so a refreshed t8 seems tempting!

[rhd443]

Originally Posted by Philip Fisher

So, my tale of woe is as follows.....

I have had my XC90 T8 from new, first as a company car, then bought from the lease company at 3 years and 85k miles old. I then ran it successfully for another 3 years whilst protected by an aftermarket warranty. When this warranty ran out in March 2022 I had some soul searching as to whether i kept the car, but figured that it was running well and I might as well keep it. The mileage was about 130k and I could not find any warranty company which would insure it either because it was a hybrid, or because of the mileage - or both. So I decided to keep it and run it without a warranty - I mean what is the worst that could happen?

A couple of weeks back it started making an odd high pitched metallic whine from the top of the engine, or the auxiliary belt area. It was particularly noticeable just as the engine was turning off, so with the hybrid turning the engine on and off with some regularity, I heard it just cutting through the wind noise and so investigated further. That was the Monday morning. By the Wednesday I had the master tech at my local dealers put their head under the bonnet and he said "I really don't like the sound of that". It was back with the dealers and me in a courtesy car the next day. They started the strip down..... I thought maybe a big bill, a supercharger, or a turbo maybe? Maybe a couple of grand?

So, what has actually happened is that the cams have eaten through their bearings, and into the bearing journals. It has also damaged the head. We caught it really quickly (or so I thought) and the engine is not full of swarf, but basically the head, cams and bearings are all scrap. Whilst the master tech was diagnosing, the noise was getting a lot worse very very quickly. So I cannot just rebuild it and send it to auction as the engine would be obviously shot. We still do not know if they have simply worn out, or whether there is another as yet undiagnosed issue with oil starvation.

The car has done most of it's life on the motorway, and for the last 3 years at least this has been at a constant 70mph doing the same commute. I have even been managing the use of the battery so that the engine does not constantly switch on and off on my daily commute. It has a full complete Volvo Service History. It has never missed an oil change.

So now my options are as follows:

Send it to a breakers, getting about 9k for it (which would also break my heart)
Put on a second hand head and new oil pump + belts, bolts etc.. - £7k cost
As above but with a new head - £8.4k cost
Stick a new Volvo engine in it - £9.3k cost
Stick a 2nd hand engine in it - £10k (go figure, Volvo engine from Sweden is £500 quid cheaper than a secondhand engine from a UK breakers)

After a lot of soul searching and calculating I have decided that the best thing to do is a new engine. Neither the 2nd hand head rebuild or the new head rebuild would give an re-assurance and the replacement engine looks remarkably good value by comparison.

The car is sitting looking very lonely in the dealers yard and awaits an engine from Sweden which looks like being 4-6 weeks for delivery.

As I understand it, Volvo UK have offered very little in the way of goodwill, so I don't expect much off that bill. That said my main contact has been off for a week so I need to catch up with him.

During this process I had a good chat with a number of independents. It would appear that this problem is not unheard of, and also that these engines tend to eat balance shafts, which then self destruct, swarfing up the inside of the engine and writing it off. I have heard of another T8 with exactly the same issue as mine (it had a warranty).

As ever Volvo Riverside Doncaster have been superb and brilliantly helpful, but there is not a massive amount they can do to soften the financial blow - although they have helped as much as they can.

So there I am. There is a big gap in the drive where my car should be and once it is fixed and back (maybe mid June if I am lucky?) I have to decide what to do. Sell and get a Polestar 2 through work, or keep driving it and worrying about another big bill. I think I might be going for the Polestar 2.

Oh and this engine is basically the same in all SPA cars. Mine is one of the earlier SPA cars and with a reasonably high mileage. Either I am just unlucky, or there are going to be a lot of very expensive failures as these cars age.

Happy days.

I really doubt this will be a new engine with all the ancillaries new also, they will refit old turbo/supercharger/injectors/sensors/intercooler joints etc I would suspect, and not have an entire new engine. Do you have any written evidence they are doing everything for the ~10k price?

I would be tempted to send a sample of your engine oil away for analysis before they drain it down to see what condition the engine is in currently, see what caused it, i.e if it's been overheating or running hot, or poor quality oil / wrong grade etc or whether you have had dirt enter via a poorly fitted air filter, some of these issues may reoccur if the issue was caused by poor oil changes (at your dealer) for example

Sounds like a money pit to me, especially having the hybrid system complexities with that sort of milage.

[Philip Fisher]

Originally Posted by Dohnut

Your pragmatic approach is to be applauded.

All things being relevant £9.3k for a new T8 engine (presumably fitted) seems good value.

Yes, that price is all in, all parts, engine, fitting, belts and VAT.

[Philip Fisher]

Originally Posted by XC90Mk1

I thought that too. In fact, I find it difficult to believe a new engine can be fitted at Volvo for anything like that. Does that figure include a goodwill gesture?

Within the 9.3k estimate there is no goodwill, other than the dealer discounting the labour rate a bit for me. The engine itself is 6.5k from Volvo and then the other circa 3k is the labour and additional parts. The 6.5k is an exchange price, so they get the old engine back (ie I cannot sell it myself). The engine is a Volvo part, bought through a Volvo dealer and is on back order from Sweden. I too was surprised at the price. I don't know whether it is re-manufactured (I assume maybe yes as they want the old engine back) but "factory re-conditioned" is not far off "new" in my book

I have also found out today that Volvo are offering 10% goodwill so that will drop the bill by roughly another grand. I hope that the dealer might be able to discount some of the additional parts. If I am lucky the bill might end up being late 7s or early 8k.

The car will come back to me with a new cambelt and a full service (which was due in June and would have cost 1.2k) so the whole debacle is likely to set me back just less than 7k net. Still very painful but surprisingly low considering the work done.

[Philip Fisher]

Originally Posted by rhd443

I really doubt this will be a new engine with all the ancillaries new also, they will refit old turbo/supercharger/injectors/sensors/intercooler joints etc I would suspect, and not have an entire new engine. Do you have any written evidence they are doing everything for the ~10k price?

It will be a complete engine, but you are right the old ancillaries will be fitted (ie turbo, supercharger, starter generator etc..). But the engine will be completely new ie. block and head, crank, valves, cams, oil system, pistons etc.. I would assume fuel injection system is also swapped over.

I don't have that in writing - no - but I trust the garage. I have had direct contact with the master tech and have gone through it a few times in detail with my contact in service.

Just waiting for the engine now as apparently they are built to order and it is currently showing as "on back order". They were hopeful of an update by the end of this week. Will keep you all posted.

[XC90Mk1]

Originally Posted by Philip Fisher

Within the 9.3k estimate there is no goodwill, other than the dealer discounting the labour rate a bit for me. The engine itself is 6.5k from Volvo and then the other circa 3k is the labour and additional parts. The 6.5k is an exchange price, so they get the old engine back (ie I cannot sell it myself). The engine is a Volvo part, bought through a Volvo dealer and is on back order from Sweden. I too was surprised at the price. I don't know whether it is re-manufactured (I assume maybe yes as they want the old engine back) but "factory re-conditioned" is not far off "new" in my book

I have also found out today that Volvo are offering 10% goodwill so that will drop the bill by roughly another grand. I hope that the dealer might be able to discount some of the additional parts. If I am lucky the bill might end up being late 7s or early 8k.

The car will come back to me with a new cambelt and a full service (which was due in June and would have cost 1.2k) so the whole debacle is likely to set me back just less than 7k net. Still very painful but surprisingly low considering the work done.

On a car of that value it sounds like you have had some good news really! Happy that it’s turned out well and to be fair it’s probably good for another 50-100k after that work.

Will you keep it after do you think?

[Haldex]

Sorry to hear this Philip. What you said - literally all SPA engines are built around the same engine block/head - and having never heard of such a failure up until now - one would hope that this is very much an exception rather than a common failure.

In any case, I think you should keep the car now - as others have said, with this much invested, a new engine under the hood - plus with the current mayhem with new car deliveries - you have a piece of mind and a car that you have owned and maintained from new.

Whatever you decide - hope you get the car back asap and good luck!

[Giles11]

Sorry to hear this Philip. One question I have is to what extent if any this problem is specific to the T8 as this seems to be solely related to the ICE. Query whether there is more engine wear with a hybrid or whether the engine management system warms up the ICE for the handover from electric