Insurance... I'll never understand it

[RollingThunder]

Its the time of year that I dread more than the MoT test - the annual insurance renewal!

I had my renewal notice from Carol Nash, which was a pleasant £290, however I queried a few things, not least the summary that said it was a UK model (sigh...). The agent said he'd check with the underwriter and call me back that evening, or if not then, then the following day.

Two days later I'm still waiting, so I did the usual checks using compare-the-meerkat, confusion.com etc and they all came back with quotes of £450+... So I suspect that Carol Nash made an admin error with their renewal, and perhaps have decided that they can't insure a Japanese import after all - glad I found out now, rather than during a claim!!!

So I called Adrian Flux, as I still get renewal emails from them, and I know they definitely insure Japanese imports as they insured my Japanese import Discovery V8 a few years ago. I asked for two quotes, one just a bog standard renewal with no mods, and one with the RICA 280 ECU fitted. In the end he just came back with the RICA quote - at £350 (ish).

Obviously I've jumped at that! However he did say that I had to fit the RICA ECU within 30 days of taking out the insurance as the car wouldn't be 'as described' and so wouldn't be insured if I didn't fit it Never before have I had an insurer tell me to chip a car to ensure it is insured

So a great result - a cheaper quote than available from the comparison sites, a quote that is DEFINITELY for a Jap import car, and a quote for a remapped ECU... happy days!

[4x4]

I had the 850 insured through Adrian Flux last year and when the renewal came in this year it was up 90%

[Clogs]

When getting a quote, if you don't specify annual mileage you want cover for, you get unlimited mileage cover, which can be double what say 5,000 miles p.a. might be.

What mileage do you do each year? Most of us wouldn't do more than 10,000 as a daily driver, and much lower as a second car.

[CNGBiFuel]

Always makes perfect sense to me. There's an illusion insurance companies like to propagate, which would have us believe they're somehow unlike bookmakers. If you're trying to make sense of anything they say or do; or price - see them as 'Honest John' but very bent. You won't go far wrong.

They run a book, and these days with mega data they've got it down to albeit your inside leg measurement, for odds on your er.. 'win'. Hence what seesm like a random quote is not at all. One bookie runs a book that likes Volvos home garaged; one likes towbars. They both don't like red etc. Fire that into a quote, and say you have one postcode; over another; one gives more comm. to the broker. perm after perm - suddenly you see their 'books' at work.

They even have 'wins' down to when you renew. Thus never get a quote that runs tomorrow. And if you think about it, you can see why. Along with desparation, you've got impulsive written all over you - wtih 'big data' they have data and thus a number on you for that too. eg: it's not hard to see 2-3 good reasons why imports are bad for 'wins'.

The only difference being bookmakers have less place to hide, the horse won or it didn't... thus without reams of T & C to hide behind, are forced to be rather more honest.

An Underwriter is a bent bookie, more data and a degree.

[ITSv40]

My insurance renewal this year went down 15%. Same car, same cover, same company.

[CNGBiFuel]

Originally Posted by ITSv40

My insurance renewal this year went down 15%. Same car, same cover, same company.

Can happen, if you've passed an age milestone, you were 39 last year - 40 this year will help. Or another year's NCB. Or it's the 'same' broker, the risk was bought by 'different' underwriters. We would be surprised if under the surface, 'Same car, same cover, same company.' was... Same risk? Very Doubtful.

However he did say that I had to fit the RICA ECU within 30 days of taking out the insurance as the car wouldn't be 'as described' and so wouldn't be insured if I didn't fit it Never before have I had an insurer tell me to chip a car to ensure it is insured

That's not quite what was said is it? You've told the bookies why they shouldn't pay. The analogy - The bet is your horse: 'Golden Boy' in the 2.35 at Kempton Park at 7-2. If you change the race, 'Golden Boy' runs at Ascot at 1.45, and your horse wins, why would you expect the bookie to pay on a Kempton Park bet? The bet is not 'as described' .

Your current bet has 'Rolling Thunder' on soft-going with a RICA ECU on the M6 at 4:15 on a wet Tuesday. Not a jockey without a RICA ECU. If you win, you may as well wipe your backside on the £350 betting slip. If you attempt to claim a 'win', all you'll get back - if you're lucky is your £350 bet. Less admin of course. You don't deserve to collect your 'winnings', the bookie can rightly claim the horse didn't run. ie you're uninsured. The only differnece here, we know the bet is £350, the bookies keep quiet on the odds. Letting us know these would break the 'insurance' spell you've paid £350 to buy into. Hence, when the bookie confirms the bet, if we choose to mishear it as 'Never before have I had an insurer tell me to chip a car to ensure it is insured ' that's good. But why insure?

The bookies tell us what the bet is, if we choose to ignore this, don't come bleating.

When getting a quote, if you don't specify annual mileage you want cover for, you get unlimited mileage cover, which can be double what say 5,000 miles p.a. might be.

Of course, you might just be lazy. In which case you'll pay for this. However you could be hiding 60K a year. They're not idiots, they'll run and perm the number, it'll get 'priced' in.

[Ulrikas PA]

I have a couple of cars with Adrian Flux.

This is the first year when I've had to get alternative quotes because the renewal offers were 30-40% up instead of the usual 5 or 10%

I just did like for like online quotes with insurers I know offer specialist cover, and Flux dropped right down again when I told them how much they were.

As mentioned on the randomness, my 'risk' had actually come down as my annual predicted mileage had fallen.

[CNGBiFuel]

We're inherently lazy... and insurers know it. If we all churned, things would be different. Instead:

instead of the usual 5 or 10%

That's it bottled. We'll accept 5-10% which is likely broker margin, and nothing to do with the underwriter's price. The broker moves the risk, yet slices another 5-10% from 'Mr Insured' with the 'same company, same car, same price'.

Procrastination becomes broker gravy. Very few of us churn. And less understand that their 'insurer' is likely not. I'm suckered to believe my insurer is Adrian Flux. When I last looked, in the pure sense, Adrian Flux do not insure anything. Never did. Likely never will.

My *actual*insurer is 'Axa' - I have to dig deep to find that out. And there's probably another layer under Axa?

[Clogs]

A broker is supposed to go to the market for you to get the best deal for you. That's what you pay his fee for him to do. Renewing with an existing insurer and quoting an increase from the insurer of over 10% involves no work at all other than passing the paperwork across to you.

Sadly too many brokers do not do much work for you... they are just middle-men chiselling a percentage of the premium... and the higher the premium, the higher their commission. The online insurers are all more expensive for anything out of the ordinary, but they have no middle-men to chisel a percentage... they keep the commission they used to pay when we all had brokers for themselves and their shareholders.

[RollingThunder]

Originally Posted by CNGBiFuel

That's not quite what was said is it?

Yep, exactly Like I said, its new to me - you'd think they'd be happy with a perceived 'lesser risk' in their eyes, but no, if the RICA ECU isn't fitted within 31 days, then the car is not as described and so is uninsured...???!!!

Heyho, suits me fine.

And yes, I did quote a realistic annual mileage etc. I'm a systems analyst, and by nature I research and... analyse... everything