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Hydrogen engine cleaning

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Old May 12th, 2021, 19:53   #11
Kev0607
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Originally Posted by tannaton View Post
what mileage did the car have on it when it was hydrogen cleaned?
158,000

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Originally Posted by Laird Scooby View Post
When i started reading your reply Kev my first thought was "you've missed the point he was making" but the second paragraph shows you didn't.

However, the Ultimate/Premium version of fuel is roughly 8% dearer than the normal but generally gives better economy (i've known up to 50% inprovement over the base figure on supermarket 95 unleaded) and the £40 as 8% of a total fuel budget would give a £500 fuel budget.

Where i used to live, my neighbour had an XC70 from new with the 163bhp D5T engine. When he was short on money towards the end of the month, he'd fill up with Tesco diesel and then complain he was only getting 28-30mpg according to the fuel computer built in. When he got paid, he would use BP Ultimate and then be happy because he was getting 45-47mpg from it again. I pointed out it would be cheaper in the long run (and better for his car) to permanently run it on Ultimate but he couldn't see past those extra few pence per litre.

Not only do the premium versions give improved performance and economy, they also help keep the fuel system cleaner and the engine as a result.

Bottom line is that £40 would pay for the extra cost of premium over normal diesel (or petrol) for a lot of fuel and factoring in the economy savings it provides, even more.
I’ve used premium in my car, not all the time though. I do notice that it sharpens up the throttle response, but I can’t say I’ve noticed much difference in increased mpg. Maybe I’d notice if I used it more frequently.

Using premium in the car that was carbon cleaned won’t be happening. Its a workhorse & putting premium in it constantly isn’t viable. The euro 4 D5’s (my car & my dad’s) aren’t particularly economical anyway, so premium fuel won’t really make much of a difference. These vehicles are still okay on fuel, so its not like we didn’t know that they weren’t particularly efficient fuel wise. As for comfort & practicality, they’re fantastic. Funnily enough, the euro 3’s were much better on fuel. It seems all the emission stuff added to the euro 4 had an effect on fuel economy.
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Old May 12th, 2021, 21:00   #12
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I agree that as engines become loaded with emission controls, the economy gets worse. My 1983 VW Passat 1.6 Diesel gave 55mpg.... my 2013 Passat 2.0tdi scraped to 45mpg if i was lucky. however 10% saving is still 10% whether it is on a 20mpg car or a 40mpg car. Until i see truly Independant corroborated evidence of this treatment it will not be going near my car. I suspect adding 2SO would give equally good, if not better results. And that is another ‘treatment’ that is unproven too. My personal take in it (having used 2SO extensively in older TDi engines) is it seems to work on EU4 and older engines with less sophisticated and lower pressure injectors. EU5/6 engines should probably not go near it. However you need to re-read my comment about how much premium fuel that £40 will pay for. You need diesel anyway so i am talking about paying for the price gap to premium Vpower or similar.

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Old May 12th, 2021, 21:12   #13
Laird Scooby
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Reducing the exhaust efficiency of any vehicle by constricting it with DPFs, cats and other things will make the engine work harder which means it uses more fuel to do the same work.

I remember as a kid i'd somehow got hold of some American car brochures (a long-distant relative of my mums brought them) and was looking through them and found that coincidental with the mandatory introduction of catalytic converters, not only did power and performance suffer but the economy suffered badly too.

Back then i had no idea what a cat was except the four-legged furry thing that came in for a feed, slept then disappeared on a 4-5 day tomming session.

It was only later things dropped into place when they decided our cars had to use the things as well.
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Old May 12th, 2021, 23:55   #14
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I agree that as engines become loaded with emission controls, the economy gets worse. My 1983 VW Passat 1.6 Diesel gave 55mpg.... my 2013 Passat 2.0tdi scraped to 45mpg if i was lucky. however 10% saving is still 10% whether it is on a 20mpg car or a 40mpg car. Until i see truly Independant corroborated evidence of this treatment it will not be going near my car. I suspect adding 2SO would give equally good, if not better results. And that is another ‘treatment’ that is unproven too. My personal take in it (having used 2SO extensively in older TDi engines) is it seems to work on EU4 and older engines with less sophisticated and lower pressure injectors. EU5/6 engines should probably not go near it. However you need to re-read my comment about how much premium fuel that £40 will pay for. You need diesel anyway so i am talking about paying for the price gap to premium Vpower or similar.
Plenty of garages have been doing carbon cleaning for years. I’m sure if it caused major problems, garages still wouldn’t be offering the service for the sake of their own reputation. There’s a high demand for it, particularly as people are holding onto cars for longer. Fair enough if you don’t want to use it... that’s your choice.

I’m not basing how much premium fuel £40 will pay for in terms of a price gap, as I won’t be using it in this particular vehicle. If I was, I’d pull up to the garage when the car needs fuel & £40 premium will give me just over half a tank. There’s no calculations needed... £40 at once, or £40 calculated at x pence per litre for ordinary diesel to x pence per litre for premium... that’s not how I’d be looking at it. The car would get £40 worth of premium (if it was used in this particular car) in one go... simple as that. As it won’t be getting premium fuel, it doesn’t really make a difference.
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Old May 13th, 2021, 14:40   #15
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it's the same with lawn mowers.... (bear with me).

We've got a fair bit of land and use a number of commercial lawn mowers, in the past 2 years we've bought two new machines (both Toro) with the newer "Eco" Briggs and Stratton E-series engines. They're more difficult to start and consistently hunt and run "rough" because they're running lean for emission.

I took a cleaning file from a oxy-acetylene blow torch nozzle to the (fixed) main jet on the carb of the bigger machine (10 HP engine) and opened it up a bit - it now runs much better, smoother and quieter. You now hear the exhaust note get louder when it works hard rather than it starts revving up and down on the governor.

I dread the day that the EU or UK start to ban petrol or diesel machinery...
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Old May 25th, 2021, 20:53   #16
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I had the carbon clean done last year and definitely noticed the difference directly following the work. Was a very noticable increase in power and responsiveness.

Trouble is I couldn't really say how long it lasted, it could still be good to this day or it may have just been a few weeks (if that makes sense) ie it was easy to tell it get better but it may have then declined slowly and I've not noticed.
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Old May 25th, 2021, 21:54   #17
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I had the carbon clean done last year and definitely noticed the difference directly following the work. Was a very noticable increase in power and responsiveness.

Trouble is I couldn't really say how long it lasted, it could still be good to this day or it may have just been a few weeks (if that makes sense) ie it was easy to tell it get better but it may have then declined slowly and I've not noticed.
I understand what you mean.

I'm not sure how often you should do a carbon clean. Is it something that you do each year, or every few years?
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Old May 26th, 2021, 23:57   #18
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I'm still a bit sceptical about hydrogen cleaning, A friend of mine was convinced the cleaning would sort out his DPF issues, but a few months later they were back and he had to take it to a real garage to get it fixed properly.

I drove the car fairly regularly, both before and after the treatment, and it did feel more responsive afterward, and being generally sceptical I was fairly surprised that I noticed a difference. But it didn't last for long before it was back to how it was before the cleaning.

I'm not sure about whether the performance boost was due to the 'cleaning', or whether running a car with hydrogen mixed in along with the fuel/air is going to affect the readings on the engine sensors and the ECU will attempt to adjust the fuel trims to compensate, possibly giving a short boost in performance until the fuel trims settle back to normal.
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Old May 27th, 2021, 00:02   #19
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I'm still a bit sceptical about hydrogen cleaning, A friend of mine was convinced the cleaning would sort out his DPF issues, but a few months later they were back and he had to take it to a real garage to get it fixed properly.

I drove the car fairly regularly, both before and after the treatment, and it did feel more responsive afterward, and being generally sceptical I was fairly surprised that I noticed a difference. But it didn't last for long before it was back to how it was before the cleaning.

I'm not sure about whether the performance boost was due to the 'cleaning', or whether running a car with hydrogen mixed in along with the fuel/air is going to affect the readings on the engine sensors and the ECU will attempt to adjust the fuel trims to compensate, possibly giving a short boost in performance until the fuel trims settle back to normal.
Time will tell I suppose with regards to how long the responsiveness lasts (on my car).

That's the first thing I noticed after having mine done in fairness... it just seemed more "lively". Oh, it idles better too.
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Old May 27th, 2021, 00:13   #20
Laird Scooby
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I drove the car fairly regularly, both before and after the treatment, and it did feel more responsive afterward, and being generally sceptical I was fairly surprised that I noticed a difference. But it didn't last for long before it was back to how it was before the cleaning.
Like i said much further up in slightly different words (post #2 or #3 or thereabouts) once you stop the cleaning process the engine will start making itself dirty again. How long it takes before the performance drops off is another matter but can't see it taking that long on a used engine.

Some time back when the only ATF available for my other beast was £12/L from the dealer, i looked into ATF Dialysis - in short this machine would pump out your ATF, clean it and return it to your gearbox.

The cost at the time was about half the cost of buying the correct fluid to renew the ATF and the correct ATF had the friction modifiers (that would either have been worn out or cleaned out by the dialysis) in and they would have been missing after the dialysis process. The friction modifiers were there to help effect a smooth change as one clutch pack dropped out and the next dropped in to change the ratios.

End result was i came to the conclusion that ATF Dialysis wasn't a viable proposition and any benefits would be short lived to be outweighed in th long term by the lack of additives that the new fluid had.
I think a similar principle to hydrogen cleaning will apply. Strip the engine and do a full decoke and it will stay clean. Have the DPF/cats cleaned and they will stay cleaner on a clean engine. Granted that is much dearer but the improvements will last longer and the economy and perforance will be returned to near or better than new and stay there a lot longer than hydrogen cleaning.

Perhaps if the car is running badly and smoking a bit before the MoT is due a hydrogen clean would be effective enough to get it through an MoT and sold to some unsuspecting buyer but next year it is likely to be just as bad!
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